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The US is too proud to admit that Ukraine is the world expert on drone warfare and that Americans should learn from Ukrainians. "Ukraine's homegrown drones hav

The US is too proud to admit that Ukraine is the world expert on drone warfare and that Americans should learn from Ukrainians. "Ukraine's homegrown drones have become increasingly lethal, critical tools in war with Russia" https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-fedorov-drones-war-russia-1.7465411 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-fedorov-drones-war-rus... "Poland turns to Ukraine for drone warfare expertise after Russian weapons enter airspace" https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/poland-turns-to-ukraine-for-drone-warfare-expertise-after-russian-weapons-enter-airspace https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/poland-turns-to-ukraine-f... The US needs Ukraine to exist and not be annexed by Russia.

alganet 1y ago
What if their drones weren't good? Just a country being attacked, with no strategic war technology transfer. Then, what should the US position be? Call me an idealist, but I think the priority in this conflict should be their sovereignty and the well being of the people over there. Otherwise it's just weird.
matusp 1y ago
Two points here. (1) A lot of technology that Ukraine uses is based on what the Western countries have provided them. (2) Ukraine struggles with AI as well, in fact, according to some sources, Ukraine is already behind Russia in drone technology. One of the reasons cited is that they invested heavily into AI and it did not yield viable drones. On the other hand, Russians decided to invest into manually controlled drones controlled via optic cables and they are very effective.
- apercu 1y ago
  I trust very few "sources", especially these days. And even more especially, in the middle of a war between two former USSR states that have deep histories in manipulating public opinion and weaponizing that against their adversaries.
  - _t9ow 1y ago
    > weaponizing that against their adversaries I understand your skepticism, but here is an interview from April 2025 with the founder of VYRIY, a Ukrainian drone company: https://militarnyi.com/en/news/vyriy-founder-compares-accuracy-of-ukrainian-and-russian-fiber-optic-drones/ https://militarnyi.com/en/news/vyriy-founder-compares-accura... According to him, Russian drones are far superior. "In terms of [Ukrainian drone vs Russian drone] quality, well, like 10% vs. 80%. It’s not even comparable,” Oleksii Babenko sums up.
    - judahmeek 1y ago
      That article suggests that the difference is due to economics & possibly intended use, not technological advances.
      - remarkEon 1y ago
        Manufacturing is a technology.
        judahmeek 1y ago
        But manufacturing something simpler to achieve optimal cost/benefit ratios is not a technological advance.
    - apercu 1y ago
      Again, I don’t trust sources that are random quotes on the interwebs during a conflict where people are dying (or corporate PR speak) but maybe that’s a me problem?
- gitremote 1y ago
  1. Did you read the first link? Virtually all of Ukraine's FPV (first-person view) attack drones are domestically produced. 2. If that's the case, why is the US trying to invest heavily into AI as well if we learned from Ukraine that AI controlled drones are shittier than human controlled drones?
  - matusp 1y ago
    > If that's the case, why is the US trying to invest heavily into AI as well if we learned from Ukraine that AI controlled drones are shittier than human controlled drones? What is according to your estimates the ratio for research funding for human-controlled and AI-controlled weapons in the US nowadays?
sleepyguy 1y ago
The US and EU/NATO are facing growing technological obsolescence. They lack the capability to effectively counter modern threats and appear disconnected from the realities of contemporary warfare. A clear example is NATO’s struggle to respond to Russian drone incursions. Recently, over 20 drones were launched into Polish airspace—yet only four were intercepted, at a cost of millions of dollars. The remainder crashed across Polish territory, highlighting serious gaps in air defense systems.
- wisemang 1y ago
  Weren’t there well over 100 launched, most of which were intercepted by Ukraine, and 20 made it into Polish airspace?
- apercu 1y ago
  Oh, totally, I'm so glad you have all the facts and can enlighten us. I think NATO is more important now than it has been in decades.
  - sleepyguy 1y ago
    NATO can't decide if they should try and shoot down Russian missiles and drones over their territory because they are afraid to escalate and don't want to anger Russia. Did you know they only agreed to shoot down Russian war planes flying over NATO territory after Trump okayed it? Unbelievable that they would let an adversary fly their bombers over their territory in the first place. Did you know that NATO has member countries that are aligned with Russia? I encourage you not to take my word for it but investigate it for yourself, there are plenty of trustworthy Western Analysts that support what I have said. Trump said that Russia is a paper tiger/bear, but Russia exposed that the West/EU is just as incompetent and NATO is basically useless without the support of the USA which is questionable. But I'm sure 100% NATO will get a chance to prove its worth, it will be interesting to see if it can meet the coming challenges.
    - apercu 1y ago
      Hey, I didn't say NATO was effective (they should be shooting down anything Russian that violates their NATO airspace, just like Turkey did). I just said NATO is really important at the moment. It's a tool - an important tool - but that doesn't mean it's being wielded correctly. Is that the fault of the hammer or the fault of the Trump supporter holding it? :)
fsckboy 1y ago
>The US is too proud to admit that Ukraine is the world expert on drone warfare and that Americans should learn from Ukrainians. there is literally nobody in America who nurses that type of pride, quite the opposite, Americans have been unusually open to integrating foreign ideas from the beginning.
- apercu 1y ago
  Broad statement.
  - fsckboy 1y ago
    i took a peek, you didn't reply "broad statment<period>" to the comment I was replying to... hmmm, pov masquerading as logic/grammar nazi?
    - apercu 1y ago
      Huh?
- mielioort 1y ago
  [dead]
- MisterTea 1y ago
  This is what happens when you only talk to like-minded people and live in a bubble. There are still plenty of people I know who would reject foreign ideas simply because "pshaw. We can [do that/do it] better." I mean I literally worked with a guy who got annoyed at the harmonized power cord I bought because it used IEC wire colors and "This is America where we use American wire colors, not that European shit. I taped the leads red white and blue!"
  - kelipso 1y ago
    Can we not use examples from the bottom 5% of the population and extrapolate that to the entire population? Also 99.99% chance the guy was making a joke.
elteto 1y ago
That is a really silly take. The US has had "advisors" embedded with Ukraine forces since the beginning of the war. Multiple high level Pentagon officials (think multi-star generals) have mentioned in interviews over the years how valuable is the intel they have been learning and collecting from the war. I can guarantee you that somewhere in Langley there are many analysts constantly churning out reports about battlefield lessons and techniques from the Ukrainian war. I like to think that there is core of career public servants inside the US government who take their jobs seriously and they perform it well. Whether decision makers take their inputs into account is a different matter.
- idontwantthis 1y ago
  > I like to think that there is core of career public servants inside the US government who take their jobs seriously and they perform it well. That could have been taken for granted in every administration before this one.

alganet 1y ago

What if their drones weren't good? Just a country being attacked, with no strategic war technology transfer. Then, what should the US position be? Call me an idealist, but I think the priority in this conflict should be their sovereignty and the well being of the people over there. Otherwise it's just weird.

matusp 1y ago

Two points here. (1) A lot of technology that Ukraine uses is based on what the Western countries have provided them. (2) Ukraine struggles with AI as well, in fact, according to some sources, Ukraine is already behind Russia in drone technology. One of the reasons cited is that they invested heavily into AI and it did not yield viable drones. On the other hand, Russians decided to invest into manually controlled drones controlled via optic cables and they are very effective.

apercu 1y ago
I trust very few "sources", especially these days. And even more especially, in the middle of a war between two former USSR states that have deep histories in manipulating public opinion and weaponizing that against their adversaries.
- _t9ow 1y ago
  > weaponizing that against their adversaries I understand your skepticism, but here is an interview from April 2025 with the founder of VYRIY, a Ukrainian drone company: https://militarnyi.com/en/news/vyriy-founder-compares-accuracy-of-ukrainian-and-russian-fiber-optic-drones/ https://militarnyi.com/en/news/vyriy-founder-compares-accura... According to him, Russian drones are far superior. "In terms of [Ukrainian drone vs Russian drone] quality, well, like 10% vs. 80%. It’s not even comparable,” Oleksii Babenko sums up.
  - judahmeek 1y ago
    That article suggests that the difference is due to economics & possibly intended use, not technological advances.
    - remarkEon 1y ago
      Manufacturing is a technology.
      - judahmeek 1y ago
        But manufacturing something simpler to achieve optimal cost/benefit ratios is not a technological advance.
  - apercu 1y ago
    Again, I don’t trust sources that are random quotes on the interwebs during a conflict where people are dying (or corporate PR speak) but maybe that’s a me problem?
gitremote 1y ago
1. Did you read the first link? Virtually all of Ukraine's FPV (first-person view) attack drones are domestically produced. 2. If that's the case, why is the US trying to invest heavily into AI as well if we learned from Ukraine that AI controlled drones are shittier than human controlled drones?
- matusp 1y ago
  > If that's the case, why is the US trying to invest heavily into AI as well if we learned from Ukraine that AI controlled drones are shittier than human controlled drones? What is according to your estimates the ratio for research funding for human-controlled and AI-controlled weapons in the US nowadays?

sleepyguy 1y ago

The US and EU/NATO are facing growing technological obsolescence. They lack the capability to effectively counter modern threats and appear disconnected from the realities of contemporary warfare. A clear example is NATO’s struggle to respond to Russian drone incursions. Recently, over 20 drones were launched into Polish airspace—yet only four were intercepted, at a cost of millions of dollars. The remainder crashed across Polish territory, highlighting serious gaps in air defense systems.

wisemang 1y ago
Weren’t there well over 100 launched, most of which were intercepted by Ukraine, and 20 made it into Polish airspace?
apercu 1y ago
Oh, totally, I'm so glad you have all the facts and can enlighten us. I think NATO is more important now than it has been in decades.
- sleepyguy 1y ago
  NATO can't decide if they should try and shoot down Russian missiles and drones over their territory because they are afraid to escalate and don't want to anger Russia. Did you know they only agreed to shoot down Russian war planes flying over NATO territory after Trump okayed it? Unbelievable that they would let an adversary fly their bombers over their territory in the first place. Did you know that NATO has member countries that are aligned with Russia? I encourage you not to take my word for it but investigate it for yourself, there are plenty of trustworthy Western Analysts that support what I have said. Trump said that Russia is a paper tiger/bear, but Russia exposed that the West/EU is just as incompetent and NATO is basically useless without the support of the USA which is questionable. But I'm sure 100% NATO will get a chance to prove its worth, it will be interesting to see if it can meet the coming challenges.
  - apercu 1y ago
    Hey, I didn't say NATO was effective (they should be shooting down anything Russian that violates their NATO airspace, just like Turkey did). I just said NATO is really important at the moment. It's a tool - an important tool - but that doesn't mean it's being wielded correctly. Is that the fault of the hammer or the fault of the Trump supporter holding it? :)

fsckboy 1y ago

>The US is too proud to admit that Ukraine is the world expert on drone warfare and that Americans should learn from Ukrainians. there is literally nobody in America who nurses that type of pride, quite the opposite, Americans have been unusually open to integrating foreign ideas from the beginning.

apercu 1y ago
Broad statement.
- fsckboy 1y ago
  i took a peek, you didn't reply "broad statment<period>" to the comment I was replying to... hmmm, pov masquerading as logic/grammar nazi?
  - apercu 1y ago
    Huh?
mielioort 1y ago
[dead]
MisterTea 1y ago
This is what happens when you only talk to like-minded people and live in a bubble. There are still plenty of people I know who would reject foreign ideas simply because "pshaw. We can [do that/do it] better." I mean I literally worked with a guy who got annoyed at the harmonized power cord I bought because it used IEC wire colors and "This is America where we use American wire colors, not that European shit. I taped the leads red white and blue!"
- kelipso 1y ago
  Can we not use examples from the bottom 5% of the population and extrapolate that to the entire population? Also 99.99% chance the guy was making a joke.

elteto 1y ago

That is a really silly take. The US has had "advisors" embedded with Ukraine forces since the beginning of the war. Multiple high level Pentagon officials (think multi-star generals) have mentioned in interviews over the years how valuable is the intel they have been learning and collecting from the war. I can guarantee you that somewhere in Langley there are many analysts constantly churning out reports about battlefield lessons and techniques from the Ukrainian war. I like to think that there is core of career public servants inside the US government who take their jobs seriously and they perform it well. Whether decision makers take their inputs into account is a different matter.

idontwantthis 1y ago
> I like to think that there is core of career public servants inside the US government who take their jobs seriously and they perform it well. That could have been taken for granted in every administration before this one.