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Archiving in the trash: The Instapaper UI

58 points by jharrier 14y ago

EngenZerO 14y ago
+1. Better UI design = win!
randallu 14y ago
Twitter for iPad (at least prior to today, I haven't updated) uses the same "Share" icon at the top of an embedded webview and at the bottom (so the same icon on the screen in two places at the same time) and they also summon different menus. I always forget which one I want when I want to email a link to a page...
- randallu 14y ago
  Ok, so I upgraded Twitter for iPad, and I don't think I'll ever use it again. So that's one annoyance taken care of!
rendezvouscp 14y ago
> Imagine if Android’s Gmail app made you click the trash to save something. We would certainly see complaining blog posts and snarky tweets all over the place. So why does Instapaper get a free pass? I’m not sure that we would. There are some great designers working on Android apps, but I don’t get the feeling that the UIs get the same critical eye, especially because there is less consistency throughout Android. Marco should probably have the Archive box and the trash icon in the main list view instead of the trash icon that does both. However, I get the feeling that he doesn’t care as much about the polish of Instapaper as some people do. Last year I sent him an email with a list of adjustments to bring Instapaper in line with how iOS apps should behave (e.g. table view cells should fade out with the back-navigation transition instead of after it), but months later, most of the issues aren’t fixed. It’s the little things that really show polish and he doesn’t seem to be responsive to fixing the little things.
- kennywinker 14y ago
  Have you considered that he might care a great deal, but disagree with your specific suggestions?
  - rendezvouscp 14y ago
    Yes, but when it comes to suggestions about standard UI features, I’d be surprised if he disagreed. Apple sets a fairly clear precedent for how standard iOS UIs should work, and whether or not it’s in the Human Interface Guidelines, going against the standard Apple sets feels sloppy. I would find it more likely that, even though (IIRC) the guy handling Instapaper’s support said he would pass it off to Marco, he simply didn’t see my suggestions or ever do anything with them.
    - homosaur 14y ago
      I think you can maybe even make the argument that it doesn't matter if he agrees, if he's going against the HIG or even established standards then he's wrong about it.
      - kennywinker 14y ago
        This is definitely not true. Many of the best UI ideas coming out of iOS go against "established standards". This is assuming the stuff is intentional, of course. If it's unintentional, it may simply be a low priority. Whether the UITableViewCell is de-selected during or after the animation is a pretty subtle and innocuous ui artifact that could nevertheless require deep changes under the hood to fix. If I was Marco, I'd weigh the impact of leaving it how it is, with the work required to change it, and probably end up leaving it until next time I reworked that area of my code. One man operations require tradeoffs pretty much all the time. You can always use Pocket if you can't handle the occasional not-very rough edges this results in.
  - ja27 14y ago
    Or that he might want to change it but knows that changing it will result in complaints and negative reviews because something changed?
molecule 14y ago
"share w/ /dev/null"
samroesch 14y ago
I'm actually a little surprised that this passed apple's App Store screening. Clearly not in compliance with the infamous "Human Interface Guidelines". Also irks me every time I use the app, as there is no quick way to archive and move onto the next item. As a paid app, and a pricey one at that, one expects a little polish. Grrrrrr make it better Marco!
- tptacek 14y ago
  Instapaper costs $2.99.
  - smackfu 14y ago
    It was $4.99 for a very long time, and $9.99 before that. I guess people remember you as an expensive app even after you drop the price. http://appshopper.com/news/instapaper-pro http://appshopper.com/news/instapaper-pro
    - tptacek 14y ago
      I have a problem with the idea that $9.99 is expensive. I bought a croissant to go with my coffee this morning and ended up spending that. The idea that using hours that bill at $150-$200 (current stab at journeyman iOS dev rate) to build products that sell "pricey" at anything over $1.99 is a problem. Problem might be the wrong word. Con. Marco will be fine. Or he won't, I guess. That's not my problem with this line of pricing thinking.
      - smackfu 14y ago
        It's the $10 croissant and coffee when all the other coffee shops are selling $3 ones. It better be a damn good croissant for the extra money.
        tptacek 14y ago
        It probably is, but that's not why I paid for it; I paid for it because it's the coffee shop in my building and I'm not going to go out of my way to optimize over 5-6 dollars. If it was crappy coffee, it would not matter to me if it cost $0.50. I can get crappy coffee for free in the lobby of the parking garage I park at.
mikeevans 14y ago
Speaking of unintuitive archive icons, I think Android's Gmail one is terrible. http://www.google.com/help/hc/images/android/android_ug_40/ic_menu_archive_holo_light.png http://www.google.com/help/hc/images/android/android_ug_40/i...
- jonursenbach 14y ago
  Why? It's a file cabinet; a place where you archive things.
  - mikeevans 14y ago
    I don't think it looks enough like one. I know it's anecdotal evidence, but I've had many people ask me what it is or what it does.
  - smackfu 14y ago
    It's two cyclop smiley faces on top of each other.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
tptacek 14y ago
Imagine if Android’s Gmail app made you click the trash to save something. We would certainly see complaining blog posts and snarky tweets all over the place. So why does Instapaper get a free pass? As we can all plainly see, it doesn't.
- jasomill 14y ago
  Imagine if you could "safely remove" a disk from Apple's own file management app by dragging it to the trash. Instapaper's UI is discoverable and forgiving, which seems far more important than its particular choice of "iconography" when actually interacting with it.
  - jharrier 14y ago
    Actually, when dragging a disk to the trash in OSX the trash can turns into an eject button.
smackfu 14y ago
Last time I tried to archive something, I hit the leftmost button, since a down-arrow on a folder kind of seems like an archive function. Then I hit the rightmost button, since it seemed like an action. Finally I hit the trash, because it was the only one left. One interesting thing about this design is that if there were separate trash/archive icons, they would probably have confirmation popups, and so the number of taps is the same either way.
Bro_Merch 14y ago
In gmail if you don't archive something it goes away on its own and it's lost. I've been using Instapaper daily for about 3 years and have always considered it one of my favorite iOS apps. I use the 'read later' folder for exactly what it is. A dumping ground. A sort of limbo. When I want to save things for an extended period I just move them into a different (non-readlater) folder. They stay there. Not only that, but they are categorized. There are a lot of stories/comments on HN that I disagree with, but in this case I really don't understand what the problem is at all. Maybe I am missing the point because I'm not using a designated "archive" function and don't realize how much better it is. Is there a reason archiving is better?
- quanticle 14y ago
  >In gmail if you don't archive something it goes away on its own and it's lost. Er, what? You don't need to explicitly archive anything in GMail. You can leave everything in your Inbox if you want to. The only folders that get auto-purged are Spam and Trash, where items older than 30 days get deleted.
bobthedino 14y ago
The button he's calling the "share" button is in fact called the "action" button in iOS. It's supposed to bring up a context-sensitive list of actions that you can perform at a particular point in an app. The article says "same button, completely different uses in the same app" - well, that's how it's meant to be used. http://bit.ly/OXvSyw http://bit.ly/OXvSyw
- kennywinker 14y ago
  That said, performing an action on the same object (an article) from the detail view or the list view should probably give you the same list of options... unless there is a very good reason not to... which there doesn't appear to be.
- ja27 14y ago
  I once had the same confusion, even as an iOS developer. That makes me try to offer individual buttons for actions that don't fit into a "share" metaphor I at least until I run out of space.

58 points by jharrier 14y ago

+1. Better UI design = win!

Twitter for iPad (at least prior to today, I haven't updated) uses the same "Share" icon at the top of an embedded webview and at the bottom (so the same icon on the screen in two places at the same time) and they also summon different menus. I always forget which one I want when I want to email a link to a page...

randallu 14y ago
Ok, so I upgraded Twitter for iPad, and I don't think I'll ever use it again. So that's one annoyance taken care of!

rendezvouscp 14y ago

> Imagine if Android’s Gmail app made you click the trash to save something. We would certainly see complaining blog posts and snarky tweets all over the place. So why does Instapaper get a free pass? I’m not sure that we would. There are some great designers working on Android apps, but I don’t get the feeling that the UIs get the same critical eye, especially because there is less consistency throughout Android. Marco should probably have the Archive box and the trash icon in the main list view instead of the trash icon that does both. However, I get the feeling that he doesn’t care as much about the polish of Instapaper as some people do. Last year I sent him an email with a list of adjustments to bring Instapaper in line with how iOS apps should behave (e.g. table view cells should fade out with the back-navigation transition instead of after it), but months later, most of the issues aren’t fixed. It’s the little things that really show polish and he doesn’t seem to be responsive to fixing the little things.

kennywinker 14y ago
Have you considered that he might care a great deal, but disagree with your specific suggestions?
- rendezvouscp 14y ago
  Yes, but when it comes to suggestions about standard UI features, I’d be surprised if he disagreed. Apple sets a fairly clear precedent for how standard iOS UIs should work, and whether or not it’s in the Human Interface Guidelines, going against the standard Apple sets feels sloppy. I would find it more likely that, even though (IIRC) the guy handling Instapaper’s support said he would pass it off to Marco, he simply didn’t see my suggestions or ever do anything with them.
  - homosaur 14y ago
    I think you can maybe even make the argument that it doesn't matter if he agrees, if he's going against the HIG or even established standards then he's wrong about it.
    - kennywinker 14y ago
      This is definitely not true. Many of the best UI ideas coming out of iOS go against "established standards". This is assuming the stuff is intentional, of course. If it's unintentional, it may simply be a low priority. Whether the UITableViewCell is de-selected during or after the animation is a pretty subtle and innocuous ui artifact that could nevertheless require deep changes under the hood to fix. If I was Marco, I'd weigh the impact of leaving it how it is, with the work required to change it, and probably end up leaving it until next time I reworked that area of my code. One man operations require tradeoffs pretty much all the time. You can always use Pocket if you can't handle the occasional not-very rough edges this results in.
- ja27 14y ago
  Or that he might want to change it but knows that changing it will result in complaints and negative reviews because something changed?

molecule 14y ago

"share w/ /dev/null"

samroesch 14y ago

I'm actually a little surprised that this passed apple's App Store screening. Clearly not in compliance with the infamous "Human Interface Guidelines". Also irks me every time I use the app, as there is no quick way to archive and move onto the next item. As a paid app, and a pricey one at that, one expects a little polish. Grrrrrr make it better Marco!

tptacek 14y ago
Instapaper costs $2.99.
- smackfu 14y ago
  It was $4.99 for a very long time, and $9.99 before that. I guess people remember you as an expensive app even after you drop the price. http://appshopper.com/news/instapaper-pro http://appshopper.com/news/instapaper-pro
  - tptacek 14y ago
    I have a problem with the idea that $9.99 is expensive. I bought a croissant to go with my coffee this morning and ended up spending that. The idea that using hours that bill at $150-$200 (current stab at journeyman iOS dev rate) to build products that sell "pricey" at anything over $1.99 is a problem. Problem might be the wrong word. Con. Marco will be fine. Or he won't, I guess. That's not my problem with this line of pricing thinking.
    - smackfu 14y ago
      It's the $10 croissant and coffee when all the other coffee shops are selling $3 ones. It better be a damn good croissant for the extra money.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        It probably is, but that's not why I paid for it; I paid for it because it's the coffee shop in my building and I'm not going to go out of my way to optimize over 5-6 dollars. If it was crappy coffee, it would not matter to me if it cost $0.50. I can get crappy coffee for free in the lobby of the parking garage I park at.

mikeevans 14y ago

Speaking of unintuitive archive icons, I think Android's Gmail one is terrible. http://www.google.com/help/hc/images/android/android_ug_40/ic_menu_archive_holo_light.png http://www.google.com/help/hc/images/android/android_ug_40/i...

jonursenbach 14y ago
Why? It's a file cabinet; a place where you archive things.
- mikeevans 14y ago
  I don't think it looks enough like one. I know it's anecdotal evidence, but I've had many people ask me what it is or what it does.
- smackfu 14y ago
  It's two cyclop smiley faces on top of each other.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

tptacek 14y ago

Imagine if Android’s Gmail app made you click the trash to save something. We would certainly see complaining blog posts and snarky tweets all over the place. So why does Instapaper get a free pass? As we can all plainly see, it doesn't.

jasomill 14y ago
Imagine if you could "safely remove" a disk from Apple's own file management app by dragging it to the trash. Instapaper's UI is discoverable and forgiving, which seems far more important than its particular choice of "iconography" when actually interacting with it.
- jharrier 14y ago
  Actually, when dragging a disk to the trash in OSX the trash can turns into an eject button.

smackfu 14y ago

Last time I tried to archive something, I hit the leftmost button, since a down-arrow on a folder kind of seems like an archive function. Then I hit the rightmost button, since it seemed like an action. Finally I hit the trash, because it was the only one left. One interesting thing about this design is that if there were separate trash/archive icons, they would probably have confirmation popups, and so the number of taps is the same either way.

Bro_Merch 14y ago

In gmail if you don't archive something it goes away on its own and it's lost. I've been using Instapaper daily for about 3 years and have always considered it one of my favorite iOS apps. I use the 'read later' folder for exactly what it is. A dumping ground. A sort of limbo. When I want to save things for an extended period I just move them into a different (non-readlater) folder. They stay there. Not only that, but they are categorized. There are a lot of stories/comments on HN that I disagree with, but in this case I really don't understand what the problem is at all. Maybe I am missing the point because I'm not using a designated "archive" function and don't realize how much better it is. Is there a reason archiving is better?

quanticle 14y ago
>In gmail if you don't archive something it goes away on its own and it's lost. Er, what? You don't need to explicitly archive anything in GMail. You can leave everything in your Inbox if you want to. The only folders that get auto-purged are Spam and Trash, where items older than 30 days get deleted.

bobthedino 14y ago

The button he's calling the "share" button is in fact called the "action" button in iOS. It's supposed to bring up a context-sensitive list of actions that you can perform at a particular point in an app. The article says "same button, completely different uses in the same app" - well, that's how it's meant to be used. http://bit.ly/OXvSyw http://bit.ly/OXvSyw

kennywinker 14y ago
That said, performing an action on the same object (an article) from the detail view or the list view should probably give you the same list of options... unless there is a very good reason not to... which there doesn't appear to be.
ja27 14y ago
I once had the same confusion, even as an iOS developer. That makes me try to offer individual buttons for actions that don't fit into a "share" metaphor I at least until I run out of space.