5 ms·

A Beautiful Maths Game

115 points by waonderer 1y ago

John2022 1y ago
I think there's a good idea in there, but it's likely to confuse as is. It seems unhelpful at best to have the task to be to determine a function involving only x and y, but then you to have to click on t, and somehow that implicitly changes x and y values. They should, in my view, have had y as a function of t, and dropped x. Or another solution that doesn't create confusion. I also think it's weird that changing the equation changes the shape of the mountain, but the text is about changing the path of the sled.
- empath75 1y ago
  There are two separate equations here, one is the slope of the mountain, which is a function of x and a value of y and one is the path of the sled, which is a function of t, with a value of (x,y)
  - John2022 1y ago
    But nowhere (at least in the first couple of levels) does it refer to the slope of the mountain - it says the task is to find "the path of the sled". But even ignoring that, nowhere does it define the relationship between t and x. What I assume they mean but don't say is that x=t. That's arbitrary. Also I assume you mean the path of the sled is (t, f(t)) where f is the function defining the slope. If the path of the sled had a value of (x,y) it would be stationary :)
    - dylan604 1y ago
      Seeing how the shape of the mountain IS the path of the sled, how does changing the shape of the mountain NOT change the path for you?
      - Nevermark 1y ago
        The path is flat by default, and mostly flat by initial expression. So it might not strike someone that the shape of the path is a mountain shape. Perhaps "the shape of a path down a mountain" would make everyone happy.
        dylan604 1y ago
        the first example shows multiple curves in the path. Did not press past that as it was obvious to me what the game was going to be and I didn't have time to play games. If there is something after that starting with a flat plane, how did one get there and not see the curved example?
        John2022 1y ago
        I understand the confusion now. What they mean is that you're determining the shape of the mountain top using an equation, and then the skier is skiing along that mountain top according to gravity. But they don't say that. Instead they say the task is to set path of skier - i.e. how the skier goes down the mountain. But that's not correct - the skier obviously doesn't need to just follow the mountain top. Common sense/reality is the opposite - you rarely just follow a mountain top. If they'd just said the above, and I think not shown the value of t, it would have been a lot clearer, at least to me. If in later levels they show formula(s) using gravity, and perhaps show the skier on different planets, with different values of G, then I can see the value in showing the value of t. But as it is, I think it's confusing.
- mlyle 1y ago
  > They should, in my view, have had y as a function of t, and dropped x. Then you could have only had a flat floor that moved up and down. If you need shape that changes, you need it to be a function of both x and t. So e.g. (x-t)^2 / 5 is a parabola shaped "bowl" that moves right at 1 unit per second.
  - John2022 1y ago
    Yeah sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant was that they are setting x=t but not saying that.
    - mlyle 1y ago
      The function sets the shape of the curve that the skier skis down. It is not the path of the skier vs time. (Gravity works, you can jump, etc). In later levels, you use t to make a floor that actually moves. The relationship between y and x is the coordinate plane behind the level (you can hold down right click to see it, IIRC).
      - John2022 1y ago
        I understand the confusion now. What they mean is that you're determining the shape of the mountain top using an equation, and then the skier is skiing along that mountain top according to gravity. But they don't say that. Instead they say the task is to set path of skier - i.e. how the skier goes down the mountain. But that's not correct - the skier obviously doesn't need to just follow the mountain top. Common sense/reality is the opposite - you rarely just follow a mountain top. If they'd just said the above, and I think not shown the value of t, it would have been a lot clearer, at least to me. If in later levels they show formula(s) using gravity, and perhaps show the skier on different planets, with different values of G, then I can see the value in showing the value of t. But as it is, I think it's confusing.
SquibblesRedux 1y ago
It looks nice. The movement is smooth and elegant. However, I really don't understand what the essential play loop is supposed to be. Is this about graphs? Calculus? Physics? Am I solving puzzles? Taking quizzes?
- mlyle 1y ago
  You're getting the gist of how to transform functions in a fun way.
great_wubwub 1y ago
This looks pretty but it's very confusing and I have no idea what it wants from me. It says 'click here!' so I did but nothing came of it.
- Sharlin 1y ago
  Yep, that's a bit bad UX. You're supposed to click on what the "Click here!" bubble points to, not on the bubble itself.
- AnotherGoodName 1y ago
  You don't click on 'click here' but the 't' nearby (which i noticed renders off screen on my phone but not on my computer).
lordnacho 1y ago
This is perfect for middle school kids to understand functions. How do you zoom on the big map though?
- SigmaEpsilonChi 1y ago
  Thank you!! I recommend taking a look at the later levels, it goes beyond a middle-school level of complexity! I have seen everyone from graduate students to tenured math professors to Grant Sanderson get stumped by late-game SineRider. It doesn't really fit neatly into any specific age group or "grade level" The map should zoom with scroll, is that not working?
  - lordnacho 1y ago
    Perhaps it's something to do with my touchpad scrolling that makes it not work
nathan_douglas 1y ago
I really like this. I'm revisiting math after a couple of decades off, and my son is getting into pre-calculus-ish topics in school, and I'm going to share it with him. It definitely has a few rough edges, though. The equation in the first screen has the right behavior but is complex enough to probably be concerning for the target audience, and I'm not sure it clearly spells out what the player is going to be doing in the greater game. `y = x` is a great actual starting point and it clicked for me then. I'm not sure how to thread that first-level needle from a design perspective, to be honest. Again, though, I do really like it. There's some trial-and-error on each level (at least for me) but I think that's part of what could make it an effective learning tool.
0xMalotru 1y ago
Ok that's brilliant
meowmeow1 1y ago
[dead]
manesioz 1y ago
Love this. Well done!
quuxplusone 1y ago
Doesn't seem to work on Chrome on OSX. I see a sort of LineRider-esque game screen, with an equation Y=(some math) at the bottom middle, and a button that just says "click here!" at the bottom right. There's also a mountain and a gear at upper right and upper left respectively. Clicking on the button that says "click here!" has no effect. Clicking on the equation allows me to change it; this changes the slope of the ski slope. I think what's supposed to happen here is that when you change the slope under the sled to be non-horizontal, the sled should start moving — sliding down the slope you just created, toward the second snowman. But that doesn't happen in Chrome. Clicking on the mountain leads to what I assume is a level-selection screen; I didn't investigate further. Clicking on the gear leads to a settings screen; I didn't investigate further. There's no obvious tutorial or "help text" button. Also, the site doesn't really deal with the browser's back button correctly. I'm not sure what it's doing, but it seems to fill up the history with instances of itself, maybe on every click, which made it... more difficult than necessary... to get back to HN afterward.
- robinhouston 1y ago
  Click the green box that says t=0, next to where it says Click here.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
nh23423fefe 1y ago
I didn't care about the characters. so just did iterative +1 and +x everywhere
SigmaEpsilonChi 1y ago
Oh hey, that's my game! I am so pleased you are enjoying it. This is a remake of a game I first published way back in 2014. This version was built by team of 22 high-schoolers from around the world, recruited through Hack Club (https://hackclub.com https://hackclub.com), where I have worked since 2018. For anyone who just wants a sense of what the game is like without the fuss of playing it, here is the launch trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35nDYoIwiA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35nDYoIwiA8
- dmd 1y ago
  It doesn't seem to work, though, no matter how many times i click on 'click here' or in what browser.
- nanmu42 1y ago
  Thanks for your great work! I like the drawing and music very much!
- waonderer 1y ago
  Thanks for creating it. I love maths, and this was very pleasing to play. Have you published any other projects similar to this one? I mean, the ones that would be relevant for non-schoolers as well?
- frandibar 1y ago
  Hey congratulations!, such a great concept, so much fun!
tartoran 1y ago
Well done!

115 points by waonderer 1y ago

John2022 1y ago

I think there's a good idea in there, but it's likely to confuse as is. It seems unhelpful at best to have the task to be to determine a function involving only x and y, but then you to have to click on t, and somehow that implicitly changes x and y values. They should, in my view, have had y as a function of t, and dropped x. Or another solution that doesn't create confusion. I also think it's weird that changing the equation changes the shape of the mountain, but the text is about changing the path of the sled.

empath75 1y ago
There are two separate equations here, one is the slope of the mountain, which is a function of x and a value of y and one is the path of the sled, which is a function of t, with a value of (x,y)
- John2022 1y ago
  But nowhere (at least in the first couple of levels) does it refer to the slope of the mountain - it says the task is to find "the path of the sled". But even ignoring that, nowhere does it define the relationship between t and x. What I assume they mean but don't say is that x=t. That's arbitrary. Also I assume you mean the path of the sled is (t, f(t)) where f is the function defining the slope. If the path of the sled had a value of (x,y) it would be stationary :)
  - dylan604 1y ago
    Seeing how the shape of the mountain IS the path of the sled, how does changing the shape of the mountain NOT change the path for you?
    - Nevermark 1y ago
      The path is flat by default, and mostly flat by initial expression. So it might not strike someone that the shape of the path is a mountain shape. Perhaps "the shape of a path down a mountain" would make everyone happy.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        the first example shows multiple curves in the path. Did not press past that as it was obvious to me what the game was going to be and I didn't have time to play games. If there is something after that starting with a flat plane, how did one get there and not see the curved example?
        John2022 1y ago
        I understand the confusion now. What they mean is that you're determining the shape of the mountain top using an equation, and then the skier is skiing along that mountain top according to gravity. But they don't say that. Instead they say the task is to set path of skier - i.e. how the skier goes down the mountain. But that's not correct - the skier obviously doesn't need to just follow the mountain top. Common sense/reality is the opposite - you rarely just follow a mountain top. If they'd just said the above, and I think not shown the value of t, it would have been a lot clearer, at least to me. If in later levels they show formula(s) using gravity, and perhaps show the skier on different planets, with different values of G, then I can see the value in showing the value of t. But as it is, I think it's confusing.
mlyle 1y ago
> They should, in my view, have had y as a function of t, and dropped x. Then you could have only had a flat floor that moved up and down. If you need shape that changes, you need it to be a function of both x and t. So e.g. (x-t)^2 / 5 is a parabola shaped "bowl" that moves right at 1 unit per second.
- John2022 1y ago
  Yeah sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant was that they are setting x=t but not saying that.
  - mlyle 1y ago
    The function sets the shape of the curve that the skier skis down. It is not the path of the skier vs time. (Gravity works, you can jump, etc). In later levels, you use t to make a floor that actually moves. The relationship between y and x is the coordinate plane behind the level (you can hold down right click to see it, IIRC).
    - John2022 1y ago
      I understand the confusion now. What they mean is that you're determining the shape of the mountain top using an equation, and then the skier is skiing along that mountain top according to gravity. But they don't say that. Instead they say the task is to set path of skier - i.e. how the skier goes down the mountain. But that's not correct - the skier obviously doesn't need to just follow the mountain top. Common sense/reality is the opposite - you rarely just follow a mountain top. If they'd just said the above, and I think not shown the value of t, it would have been a lot clearer, at least to me. If in later levels they show formula(s) using gravity, and perhaps show the skier on different planets, with different values of G, then I can see the value in showing the value of t. But as it is, I think it's confusing.

SquibblesRedux 1y ago

It looks nice. The movement is smooth and elegant. However, I really don't understand what the essential play loop is supposed to be. Is this about graphs? Calculus? Physics? Am I solving puzzles? Taking quizzes?

mlyle 1y ago
You're getting the gist of how to transform functions in a fun way.

great_wubwub 1y ago

This looks pretty but it's very confusing and I have no idea what it wants from me. It says 'click here!' so I did but nothing came of it.

Sharlin 1y ago
Yep, that's a bit bad UX. You're supposed to click on what the "Click here!" bubble points to, not on the bubble itself.
AnotherGoodName 1y ago
You don't click on 'click here' but the 't' nearby (which i noticed renders off screen on my phone but not on my computer).

lordnacho 1y ago

This is perfect for middle school kids to understand functions. How do you zoom on the big map though?

SigmaEpsilonChi 1y ago
Thank you!! I recommend taking a look at the later levels, it goes beyond a middle-school level of complexity! I have seen everyone from graduate students to tenured math professors to Grant Sanderson get stumped by late-game SineRider. It doesn't really fit neatly into any specific age group or "grade level" The map should zoom with scroll, is that not working?
- lordnacho 1y ago
  Perhaps it's something to do with my touchpad scrolling that makes it not work

nathan_douglas 1y ago

I really like this. I'm revisiting math after a couple of decades off, and my son is getting into pre-calculus-ish topics in school, and I'm going to share it with him. It definitely has a few rough edges, though. The equation in the first screen has the right behavior but is complex enough to probably be concerning for the target audience, and I'm not sure it clearly spells out what the player is going to be doing in the greater game. `y = x` is a great actual starting point and it clicked for me then. I'm not sure how to thread that first-level needle from a design perspective, to be honest. Again, though, I do really like it. There's some trial-and-error on each level (at least for me) but I think that's part of what could make it an effective learning tool.

0xMalotru 1y ago

Ok that's brilliant

meowmeow1 1y ago

[dead]

manesioz 1y ago

Love this. Well done!

quuxplusone 1y ago

Doesn't seem to work on Chrome on OSX. I see a sort of LineRider-esque game screen, with an equation Y=(some math) at the bottom middle, and a button that just says "click here!" at the bottom right. There's also a mountain and a gear at upper right and upper left respectively. Clicking on the button that says "click here!" has no effect. Clicking on the equation allows me to change it; this changes the slope of the ski slope. I think what's supposed to happen here is that when you change the slope under the sled to be non-horizontal, the sled should start moving — sliding down the slope you just created, toward the second snowman. But that doesn't happen in Chrome. Clicking on the mountain leads to what I assume is a level-selection screen; I didn't investigate further. Clicking on the gear leads to a settings screen; I didn't investigate further. There's no obvious tutorial or "help text" button. Also, the site doesn't really deal with the browser's back button correctly. I'm not sure what it's doing, but it seems to fill up the history with instances of itself, maybe on every click, which made it... more difficult than necessary... to get back to HN afterward.

robinhouston 1y ago
Click the green box that says t=0, next to where it says Click here.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

nh23423fefe 1y ago

I didn't care about the characters. so just did iterative +1 and +x everywhere

SigmaEpsilonChi 1y ago

Oh hey, that's my game! I am so pleased you are enjoying it. This is a remake of a game I first published way back in 2014. This version was built by team of 22 high-schoolers from around the world, recruited through Hack Club (https://hackclub.com https://hackclub.com), where I have worked since 2018. For anyone who just wants a sense of what the game is like without the fuss of playing it, here is the launch trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35nDYoIwiA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35nDYoIwiA8

dmd 1y ago
It doesn't seem to work, though, no matter how many times i click on 'click here' or in what browser.
nanmu42 1y ago
Thanks for your great work! I like the drawing and music very much!
waonderer 1y ago
Thanks for creating it. I love maths, and this was very pleasing to play. Have you published any other projects similar to this one? I mean, the ones that would be relevant for non-schoolers as well?
frandibar 1y ago
Hey congratulations!, such a great concept, so much fun!

tartoran 1y ago

Well done!