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I wonder if there will be a reversal in pedestrian deaths with the rise in larger cars. I live in a large UK city and it is mad the number of SUVs you see drivi

I wonder if there will be a reversal in pedestrian deaths with the rise in larger cars. I live in a large UK city and it is mad the number of SUVs you see driving around.

rusk 1y ago
There is a compensating rise in small EV also so hopefully that will cancel things out
CalRobert 1y ago
Do you have Individual Vehicle Approval? It’s shocking how many gigantic Dodge Rams (which do not meet EU safety rules) are driving around the Netherlands. One killed a 23 year old cyclist a few weeks ago.
- andrepd 1y ago
  Don't worry, our dear leaders are already hard at work giving up their people's safety and ensuring we bend over backwards to appease the US. Such vehicles will be able to drive in the EU with no hurdles. Fuck me
- Symbiote 1y ago
  I hope there's progress being made to close the import loophole: https://www.ecf.com/en/news/eu-commission-acknowledges-regulatory-flaws-with-large-pick-up-truck-imports-following-ecf-co-signed-letter-/ https://www.ecf.com/en/news/eu-commission-acknowledges-regul... Meanwhile, there's a group (mostly in Britain) that sometimes lets the air out of the tyres of inappropriate vehicles [1] and sometimes drills holes in them [2]. From [3], "My mother is in palliative care and I came to the car to go to her, but because of your vicious act, I am stuck trying to reinflate my tyres!" — I have no sympathy whatsoever. She bought the 'car', she can call a taxi if the journey is urgent. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/who-are-the-tyre-extinguishers/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/who-are-the-tyre-extinguishe... / https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/29/tyre-extinguishers-deflate-tyres-of-900-suvs-in-biggest-ever-action https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/29/tyre-ext... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/07/activists-drill-holes-in-tyres-of-more-than-60-suvs-at-exeter-car-dealership https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/07/activist... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg67xeqp296o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg67xeqp296o
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Unfortunately the EU is caving apparently. I worry these monster trucks will kill thousands of Europeans. https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/eu-cave-in-on-vehicle-trade-rules-will-cost-european-lives-as-us-pick-up-trucks-flood-into-europe https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/eu-cave-in-on-... One small bit of good news is the Netherlands FINALLY closed the tax exception for these things. Until this year you’d pay no import tax if it was for “business” (NL has a huge number of self employed people who just lie about what the truck is for). It made a dodge ram ridiculously cheap. Notice they all have V plates signifying a business vehicle.
- tupac_speedrap 1y ago
  We have IVA in the UK but it is mostly used to import Japanese cars at the moment because you only need a few modifications to most cars (fog lights, indicators) and the Yen is weak at the moment so a lot of people are importing cars like the Suzuki Jimny which meet our standards but aren't sold due to Europe wide emissions regulations. You would have to do a lot more to an American car because the safety standards are different so it isn't an attractive option unless you really want a specific vehicle at any cost.
iainmerrick 1y ago
Yes, I really have a hard time understanding that trend. More than just the overall sizes of the cars (and they are big) it's those very high, flat fronts. That surely must be bad for visibility and bad for fuel efficiency at speed. I can only imagine people like that style because it looks more like a car and less like a minivan, which is what those enormous SUVs really are.
- toast0 1y ago
  The market (either producers or consumers or both) don't seem to care about visibility. If you sit in a 20 year old car vs a brand new car, visibility is clearly better in the 20 year old car; if you go back to a 40 year car, it's even better. I've got an 81 VW Vanagon, the visibility is really good: cabover [1] means there's no hood in front, clear vertical windows and no safety features makes it easy to see out in every direction. Terrible side mirror attachments are a negative, but I'm putting aftermarket windows that promise to hold position after adjustment. [1] It's not really a cabover, the engine is in the rear. but the front seats are slightly in front of the front axle, and the windshield is at the front of the vehicle. Some contemporaries were really cab-over, like the Toyota Van (aka TownAce) although that has a sloped front which reduces drag and visibility.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    The visibility is great and the side impact survivability is roughly equal to that of a claymore mine operated by an expert. Who knows you cheated on his sister. The IIHS didn’t even start side impact ratings until 2003, which is a lot more recent than I would have ever guessed.
- Peanuts99 1y ago
  Perversely they're higher partially because of pedestrian safety. More space between the engine and the bonnet and hinges that extend that space when a force is applied to the front of the car to cushion the impact. Euro NCAP has a whole category for pedestrian safety to test exactly these features.
  - 1y ago
andrepd 1y ago
You don't need to wonder, the reversal is already well under way.
protocolture 1y ago
I dont see why. Like outside of specifically seppo produced coal wagons, the bigger cars\trucks\suvs are shipping with all safety features by default. I have 360 degree cameras at slow speed, sensors that go off if theres a loose branch within a meter of the car. I have more faith in my big car than I did with my older hatchback which only had a reversing cam.
- avianlyric 1y ago
  Because bigger cars carry more energy, have poorer driver visibility, and are more likely to result in pedestrians going under the vehicle due to higher bonnet lines. Big cars make drivers feel safer. But the stats are quite clear, they kill more pedestrians, and, ironically, are more likely to kill their drivers due their roll over risk. The safety features might help, but they’re just compensating for all the additional risk bigger vehicles bring. You simply can’t beat physics.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    I mean in terms of driver visibility, you can absolutely improve that. My forward camera is below a toddlers head height and fisheyed like no ones business. And thats before the sensors. The question of IF a collision occurs, will the larger car do more damage, obviously it will. Well maybe not obviously, if the sensors are throwing on my breaks earlier than I can react there can be substantially less energy on that front too. But in terms of frequency I feel like they have taken extreme measures to substantially reduce the risk of the collision occurring in the first place.
    - IneffablePigeon 1y ago
      A camera is no substitute for actual visibility, at best it’s a mediocre workaround to the problem. There is no evidence at all that I’ve seen that there are fewer pedestrian collisions in modern large vehicles - I would be interested if you have any such data. Regardless, all of these “extreme measures” could be applied to a smaller car (or even just one with a smaller wall at the front) for the best of both worlds. And collisions will happen regardless, sensors and cameras are not a magic solution.
mytailorisrich 1y ago
The issue is bad drivers and, sometimes, reckless pedestrians. Obviously, in an UK town pedestrians and cars should never come in contact, there are pavements, pedestrian crossings, etc.
jbjbjbjb 1y ago
Probably mitigated by the fact that the most popular SUVs in the UK are effectively just tall hatchbacks. People think Range Rovers but the bestsellers are like Kia Sportage and Ford Puma.
throwaway2037 1y ago
Is the rise in SUVs about (displaying/increasing) social status? I am curious why people in the UK "need" SUVs. In many areas of the US, having a huge car is about social status.
- jajko 1y ago
  Poor driving skills rather than social status. But who of those brilliant folks would admit that even to themselves. Also suvs are not some expensive car category, you can find dirt cheap (and crappy as suvs in general anyway are) ones.

I wonder if there will be a reversal in pedestrian deaths with the rise in larger cars. I live in a large UK city and it is mad the number of SUVs you see driving around.

rusk 1y ago

There is a compensating rise in small EV also so hopefully that will cancel things out

CalRobert 1y ago

Do you have Individual Vehicle Approval? It’s shocking how many gigantic Dodge Rams (which do not meet EU safety rules) are driving around the Netherlands. One killed a 23 year old cyclist a few weeks ago.

andrepd 1y ago
Don't worry, our dear leaders are already hard at work giving up their people's safety and ensuring we bend over backwards to appease the US. Such vehicles will be able to drive in the EU with no hurdles. Fuck me
Symbiote 1y ago
I hope there's progress being made to close the import loophole: https://www.ecf.com/en/news/eu-commission-acknowledges-regulatory-flaws-with-large-pick-up-truck-imports-following-ecf-co-signed-letter-/ https://www.ecf.com/en/news/eu-commission-acknowledges-regul... Meanwhile, there's a group (mostly in Britain) that sometimes lets the air out of the tyres of inappropriate vehicles [1] and sometimes drills holes in them [2]. From [3], "My mother is in palliative care and I came to the car to go to her, but because of your vicious act, I am stuck trying to reinflate my tyres!" — I have no sympathy whatsoever. She bought the 'car', she can call a taxi if the journey is urgent. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/who-are-the-tyre-extinguishers/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/who-are-the-tyre-extinguishe... / https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/29/tyre-extinguishers-deflate-tyres-of-900-suvs-in-biggest-ever-action https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/29/tyre-ext... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/07/activists-drill-holes-in-tyres-of-more-than-60-suvs-at-exeter-car-dealership https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/07/activist... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg67xeqp296o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg67xeqp296o
- CalRobert 1y ago
  Unfortunately the EU is caving apparently. I worry these monster trucks will kill thousands of Europeans. https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/eu-cave-in-on-vehicle-trade-rules-will-cost-european-lives-as-us-pick-up-trucks-flood-into-europe https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/eu-cave-in-on-... One small bit of good news is the Netherlands FINALLY closed the tax exception for these things. Until this year you’d pay no import tax if it was for “business” (NL has a huge number of self employed people who just lie about what the truck is for). It made a dodge ram ridiculously cheap. Notice they all have V plates signifying a business vehicle.
tupac_speedrap 1y ago
We have IVA in the UK but it is mostly used to import Japanese cars at the moment because you only need a few modifications to most cars (fog lights, indicators) and the Yen is weak at the moment so a lot of people are importing cars like the Suzuki Jimny which meet our standards but aren't sold due to Europe wide emissions regulations. You would have to do a lot more to an American car because the safety standards are different so it isn't an attractive option unless you really want a specific vehicle at any cost.

iainmerrick 1y ago

Yes, I really have a hard time understanding that trend. More than just the overall sizes of the cars (and they are big) it's those very high, flat fronts. That surely must be bad for visibility and bad for fuel efficiency at speed. I can only imagine people like that style because it looks more like a car and less like a minivan, which is what those enormous SUVs really are.

toast0 1y ago
The market (either producers or consumers or both) don't seem to care about visibility. If you sit in a 20 year old car vs a brand new car, visibility is clearly better in the 20 year old car; if you go back to a 40 year car, it's even better. I've got an 81 VW Vanagon, the visibility is really good: cabover [1] means there's no hood in front, clear vertical windows and no safety features makes it easy to see out in every direction. Terrible side mirror attachments are a negative, but I'm putting aftermarket windows that promise to hold position after adjustment. [1] It's not really a cabover, the engine is in the rear. but the front seats are slightly in front of the front axle, and the windshield is at the front of the vehicle. Some contemporaries were really cab-over, like the Toyota Van (aka TownAce) although that has a sloped front which reduces drag and visibility.
- hinkley 1y ago
  The visibility is great and the side impact survivability is roughly equal to that of a claymore mine operated by an expert. Who knows you cheated on his sister. The IIHS didn’t even start side impact ratings until 2003, which is a lot more recent than I would have ever guessed.
Peanuts99 1y ago
Perversely they're higher partially because of pedestrian safety. More space between the engine and the bonnet and hinges that extend that space when a force is applied to the front of the car to cushion the impact. Euro NCAP has a whole category for pedestrian safety to test exactly these features.
- 1y ago

andrepd 1y ago

You don't need to wonder, the reversal is already well under way.

protocolture 1y ago

I dont see why. Like outside of specifically seppo produced coal wagons, the bigger cars\trucks\suvs are shipping with all safety features by default. I have 360 degree cameras at slow speed, sensors that go off if theres a loose branch within a meter of the car. I have more faith in my big car than I did with my older hatchback which only had a reversing cam.

avianlyric 1y ago
Because bigger cars carry more energy, have poorer driver visibility, and are more likely to result in pedestrians going under the vehicle due to higher bonnet lines. Big cars make drivers feel safer. But the stats are quite clear, they kill more pedestrians, and, ironically, are more likely to kill their drivers due their roll over risk. The safety features might help, but they’re just compensating for all the additional risk bigger vehicles bring. You simply can’t beat physics.
- protocolture 1y ago
  I mean in terms of driver visibility, you can absolutely improve that. My forward camera is below a toddlers head height and fisheyed like no ones business. And thats before the sensors. The question of IF a collision occurs, will the larger car do more damage, obviously it will. Well maybe not obviously, if the sensors are throwing on my breaks earlier than I can react there can be substantially less energy on that front too. But in terms of frequency I feel like they have taken extreme measures to substantially reduce the risk of the collision occurring in the first place.
  - IneffablePigeon 1y ago
    A camera is no substitute for actual visibility, at best it’s a mediocre workaround to the problem. There is no evidence at all that I’ve seen that there are fewer pedestrian collisions in modern large vehicles - I would be interested if you have any such data. Regardless, all of these “extreme measures” could be applied to a smaller car (or even just one with a smaller wall at the front) for the best of both worlds. And collisions will happen regardless, sensors and cameras are not a magic solution.

mytailorisrich 1y ago

The issue is bad drivers and, sometimes, reckless pedestrians. Obviously, in an UK town pedestrians and cars should never come in contact, there are pavements, pedestrian crossings, etc.

jbjbjbjb 1y ago

Probably mitigated by the fact that the most popular SUVs in the UK are effectively just tall hatchbacks. People think Range Rovers but the bestsellers are like Kia Sportage and Ford Puma.

throwaway2037 1y ago

Is the rise in SUVs about (displaying/increasing) social status? I am curious why people in the UK "need" SUVs. In many areas of the US, having a huge car is about social status.

jajko 1y ago
Poor driving skills rather than social status. But who of those brilliant folks would admit that even to themselves. Also suvs are not some expensive car category, you can find dirt cheap (and crappy as suvs in general anyway are) ones.