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'Many' in the context of a claim of illegal detention, can and should be given a more precise number, otherwise it's fair to assume a narrative is being sold. A

'Many' in the context of a claim of illegal detention, can and should be given a more precise number, otherwise it's fair to assume a narrative is being sold. ATF Atlanta claims 450 workers are 'unlawful aliens'. A counter claim should be specific or get tossed out. 10s? 100s? Vague damage control is never a good sign. SK embassy and Hyundai itself have significant liability in admitting or even acknowledging employment of illegals.

kennywinker 1y ago
The liars can say whatever they want, but if you want to counter them you have to be very specific. You’ve just constructed a trap that encourages lies. In less than 24 hours ATF atlanta is confidant all 450 people arrested were working illegally? Not likely possible, so they just lied. But if you want to refute that you have to have a specific number. So your options are go slow, take a week to validate the legal status of all 450 people, or lie also.
- ethagknight 1y ago
  You assume ATF is lying at face value, thats fine. Remember that they also have access to paystub info, tax filings, etc, for workers at this plant. They already know who they are looking for. It's plain foolishness to think this was just a random checkpoint. An appropriate response from the employer is, "We have thorough records on all our employment, we take employment laws very seriously, and we believe to the best of our knowledge that our employees are in proper legal standing in compliance with the laws of the state of Georgia." (update: from the article, they say are committed and cooperating) Also, Biden-era Dept of Labor accused Hyundai of using child labor throughout its supply chain. UNDER THE AGE OF 14 in an auto factory. But sure, let's presume innocence and assume the feds are the illegal ones on this next turn. >>“Our investigation found SL Alabama engaged in oppressive child labor by employing young workers under the minimum age of 14, and by employing minors under 16 in a manufacturing occupation,” said Wage and Hour Division District Director Kenneth Stripling in Birmingham, Alabama. “Employers are responsible for knowing who is working in their facilities, ensuring that those individuals are of legal working age, and that their employment complies with all federal, state and local labor laws.” https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/WHD/WHD20221011 https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/WHD/WHD20221011
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    > You assume ATF is lying at face value, thats fine. No I assume it because their track record shows they arrest many people who aren’t breaking any laws. By their own stats they let about 30% of the people they arrest go. Assuming this was an average arrest, that means 450 is actually 315, and the 135 people wrongly arrested won’t receive anything resembling an apology. I also suspect the stat of innocent people arrested will go up if they are ever forced to process the people they’ve tossed into concentration camps without due process.
    - ethagknight 1y ago
      Hyundai has a known track record of circumventing the law in the US, but you’d rather assume innocence. Can’t help that you side with child labor trafficking. The wrongful arrests aren’t a death sentence, it’s an inconvenience of getting caught up in a much larger willful breach of federal law. They’re probably back at work the next day. I’ve personally been detained by police wrongfully. Not a big deal.
      - kennywinker 1y ago
        In early april, 2012? I’d be a little more cautious about tossing around accusations of supporting crimes against children if I were you. Disgusting.
        ethagknight 1y ago
        2022. This is the same company. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_allegations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_...
        kennywinker 1y ago
        I was talking about you.
        kennywinker 1y ago

kennywinker 1y ago

The liars can say whatever they want, but if you want to counter them you have to be very specific. You’ve just constructed a trap that encourages lies. In less than 24 hours ATF atlanta is confidant all 450 people arrested were working illegally? Not likely possible, so they just lied. But if you want to refute that you have to have a specific number. So your options are go slow, take a week to validate the legal status of all 450 people, or lie also.

ethagknight 1y ago
You assume ATF is lying at face value, thats fine. Remember that they also have access to paystub info, tax filings, etc, for workers at this plant. They already know who they are looking for. It's plain foolishness to think this was just a random checkpoint. An appropriate response from the employer is, "We have thorough records on all our employment, we take employment laws very seriously, and we believe to the best of our knowledge that our employees are in proper legal standing in compliance with the laws of the state of Georgia." (update: from the article, they say are committed and cooperating) Also, Biden-era Dept of Labor accused Hyundai of using child labor throughout its supply chain. UNDER THE AGE OF 14 in an auto factory. But sure, let's presume innocence and assume the feds are the illegal ones on this next turn. >>“Our investigation found SL Alabama engaged in oppressive child labor by employing young workers under the minimum age of 14, and by employing minors under 16 in a manufacturing occupation,” said Wage and Hour Division District Director Kenneth Stripling in Birmingham, Alabama. “Employers are responsible for knowing who is working in their facilities, ensuring that those individuals are of legal working age, and that their employment complies with all federal, state and local labor laws.” https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/WHD/WHD20221011 https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/WHD/WHD20221011
- kennywinker 1y ago
  > You assume ATF is lying at face value, thats fine. No I assume it because their track record shows they arrest many people who aren’t breaking any laws. By their own stats they let about 30% of the people they arrest go. Assuming this was an average arrest, that means 450 is actually 315, and the 135 people wrongly arrested won’t receive anything resembling an apology. I also suspect the stat of innocent people arrested will go up if they are ever forced to process the people they’ve tossed into concentration camps without due process.
  - ethagknight 1y ago
    Hyundai has a known track record of circumventing the law in the US, but you’d rather assume innocence. Can’t help that you side with child labor trafficking. The wrongful arrests aren’t a death sentence, it’s an inconvenience of getting caught up in a much larger willful breach of federal law. They’re probably back at work the next day. I’ve personally been detained by police wrongfully. Not a big deal.
    - kennywinker 1y ago
      In early april, 2012? I’d be a little more cautious about tossing around accusations of supporting crimes against children if I were you. Disgusting.
      - ethagknight 1y ago
        2022. This is the same company. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_allegations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Alabama_child_labor_...
        kennywinker 1y ago
        I was talking about you.
        kennywinker 1y ago