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There's no AArch32 or Thumb support (A32/T32) on M-series chips. AArch64 (technically A64) is the only supported instruction set. Fun fact: this makes it imposs

by daeken 1y ago

There's no AArch32 or Thumb support (A32/T32) on M-series chips. AArch64 (technically A64) is the only supported instruction set. Fun fact: this makes it impossible to run Mario Kart 8 via virtualization on Macs without software translation, since it's A32. How much that does for efficiency I can't say, but I imagine it helps, especially given just how damn easy it is to decode.

averne_ 1y ago
It actually doesn't make much difference: https://chipsandcheese.com/i/138977378/decoder-differences-a-drop-in-the-bucket https://chipsandcheese.com/i/138977378/decoder-differences-a...
- daeken 1y ago
  Oh wow, I need to dig way deeper into this but wonderful resource - thanks!
- chasil 1y ago
  I had not realized that Apple did not implement any of the 32-bit ARM environment, but that cuts the legs out of this argument in the article: "In Anandtech’s interview, Jim Keller noted that both x86 and ARM both added features over time as software demands evolved. Both got cleaned up a bit when they went 64-bit, but remain old instruction sets that have seen years of iteration." I still say that x86 must run two FPUs all the time, and that has to cost some power (AMD must run three - it also has 3dNow). Intel really couldn't resist adding instructions with each new chip (MMX, PAE for 32-bit, many more on this shorthand list that I don't know), which are now mostly baggage.
  - theevilsharpie 1y ago
    > I still say that x86 must run two FPUs all the time, and that has to cost some power (AMD must run three - it also has 3dNow). Legacy floating-point and SIMD instructions exposed by the ISA (and extensions to it) don't have any bearing on how the hardware works internally. Additionally, AMD processors haven't supported 3DNow! in over a decade -- K10 was the last processor family to support it.
    - chasil 1y ago
      80-bit x87 has no bearing on SSE implementation. Right. Not.

by daeken 1y ago

averne_ 1y ago

It actually doesn't make much difference: https://chipsandcheese.com/i/138977378/decoder-differences-a-drop-in-the-bucket https://chipsandcheese.com/i/138977378/decoder-differences-a...

daeken 1y ago
Oh wow, I need to dig way deeper into this but wonderful resource - thanks!
chasil 1y ago
I had not realized that Apple did not implement any of the 32-bit ARM environment, but that cuts the legs out of this argument in the article: "In Anandtech’s interview, Jim Keller noted that both x86 and ARM both added features over time as software demands evolved. Both got cleaned up a bit when they went 64-bit, but remain old instruction sets that have seen years of iteration." I still say that x86 must run two FPUs all the time, and that has to cost some power (AMD must run three - it also has 3dNow). Intel really couldn't resist adding instructions with each new chip (MMX, PAE for 32-bit, many more on this shorthand list that I don't know), which are now mostly baggage.
- theevilsharpie 1y ago
  > I still say that x86 must run two FPUs all the time, and that has to cost some power (AMD must run three - it also has 3dNow). Legacy floating-point and SIMD instructions exposed by the ISA (and extensions to it) don't have any bearing on how the hardware works internally. Additionally, AMD processors haven't supported 3DNow! in over a decade -- K10 was the last processor family to support it.
  - chasil 1y ago
    80-bit x87 has no bearing on SSE implementation. Right. Not.