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In the UK the push towards renewable energy has so far been disastrous for energy prices and stability. There have been days in the UK where the sun doesn't shi

by bArray 1y ago

In the UK the push towards renewable energy has so far been disastrous for energy prices and stability. There have been days in the UK where the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, and we came extremely close to blackouts [0]. We were forced to buy energy for eye watering prices. After the initial shock from the Russia-Ukraine conflict gas prices moved slightly, but electricity prices are not really recovering well and are projected to rise [1] [2]. According to government figures, 11% of electricity costs goes toward green initiatives, and 5% to VAT, which is also earmarked for green initiatives. The government has promised that as we become greener, we should see the prices come down, but the opposite has been true [3]. The green energy sector is currently largely subsidised by fossil fuels, as we transition more and more to green energy, the true costs are realised. Our Energy Secretary (failed prime minister candidate) says: > Responding to the 6% price cap rise, Energy Secretary Ed Miliband said it was due to "our reliance on the fossil fuel markets" and added: "We're acting to bring down bills for everyone with our mission for clean, home-grown power that we control." The irony is that we don't make our own wind turbines or solar panels, so our grid is still precariously dependant on foreign actors. We're breaking away from the likes of Russia to become dependant on China - great. Bare in mind, all of this effort for the UK which produces less than 1% of global emissions, but outsources its manufacturing to Countries such as China that have not even started to attempt to reduce their emissions (recent drops are due to economic collapse). [0] https://watt-logic.com/2025/01/09/blackouts-near-miss-in-tighest-day-in-gb-electricity-market-since-2011/ https://watt-logic.com/2025/01/09/blackouts-near-miss-in-tig... [1] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9714/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-... [2] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9491/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-... [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkep1vx3mro https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkep1vx3mro

ajoseps 1y ago
One difference with renewables and traditional fuel sources is that once renewable infrastructure is built you don’t need to continually import from another country. Maintenance is definitely an issue and on going expansion and upgrades as well. I do think long term renewables wouldn’t have the same issues as oil dependency on another country though. The UK does still need to build more on shore nevertheless.
- bArray 1y ago
  > One difference with renewables and traditional fuel sources is that once renewable infrastructure is built you don’t need to continually import from another country. This is exactly what I'm arguing against. The UK only has two real sources of renewable energy, solar and wind. The articles I linked showed that there were periods where we could barely get the energy we needed - and that included the imports from the EU. There is no real answer currently to storing that energy. The UK historically had a strategic decentralised reserve of gas which were decommissioned (although articles do not show it). A prior government foolishly turned us into a "on-demand economy" for energy, and we had zero buffer to global prices. Fuels such as gas, diesel, petrol, coal, etc, can be stored for long periods and are very energy dense. > Maintenance is definitely an issue and on going expansion and upgrades as well. I do think long term renewables wouldn’t have the same issues as oil dependency on another country though. Solar panels have a lifetime, the entire fleet will need to be rotated within 10-20 years, but they are currently being purchased directly with tax payer money. The UK has not yet demonstrated that it can incorporate all of these costs at a similar or lower rate. These panels are not manufactured locally, and we are reliant on external countries to produce them. Wind turbines are a similar story.
femiagbabiaka 1y ago
> China that have not even started to attempt to reduce their emissions (recent drops are due to economic collapse). This is completely incorrect, and it makes me wonder if the rest of your comment is too.
- bArray 1y ago
  China has long faked all numbers they publish. They literally paint mountainsides green to fool satellites and get green subsidies [1] [2]. I can't find the article on it now, but they had fields of fake solar panels too. The only figure coming out of China that can be believed is externally measured emissions, and the number continues to go up at an incredible rate [3]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/14/china https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/14/china [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/chinese-mine-spray-painted-rocks-green-look-like-trees-trick-environment-authorities/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/chinese-mine-spray-painted-r... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china

by bArray 1y ago

ajoseps 1y ago

One difference with renewables and traditional fuel sources is that once renewable infrastructure is built you don’t need to continually import from another country. Maintenance is definitely an issue and on going expansion and upgrades as well. I do think long term renewables wouldn’t have the same issues as oil dependency on another country though. The UK does still need to build more on shore nevertheless.

bArray 1y ago
> One difference with renewables and traditional fuel sources is that once renewable infrastructure is built you don’t need to continually import from another country. This is exactly what I'm arguing against. The UK only has two real sources of renewable energy, solar and wind. The articles I linked showed that there were periods where we could barely get the energy we needed - and that included the imports from the EU. There is no real answer currently to storing that energy. The UK historically had a strategic decentralised reserve of gas which were decommissioned (although articles do not show it). A prior government foolishly turned us into a "on-demand economy" for energy, and we had zero buffer to global prices. Fuels such as gas, diesel, petrol, coal, etc, can be stored for long periods and are very energy dense. > Maintenance is definitely an issue and on going expansion and upgrades as well. I do think long term renewables wouldn’t have the same issues as oil dependency on another country though. Solar panels have a lifetime, the entire fleet will need to be rotated within 10-20 years, but they are currently being purchased directly with tax payer money. The UK has not yet demonstrated that it can incorporate all of these costs at a similar or lower rate. These panels are not manufactured locally, and we are reliant on external countries to produce them. Wind turbines are a similar story.

femiagbabiaka 1y ago

> China that have not even started to attempt to reduce their emissions (recent drops are due to economic collapse). This is completely incorrect, and it makes me wonder if the rest of your comment is too.

bArray 1y ago
China has long faked all numbers they publish. They literally paint mountainsides green to fool satellites and get green subsidies [1] [2]. I can't find the article on it now, but they had fields of fake solar panels too. The only figure coming out of China that can be believed is externally measured emissions, and the number continues to go up at an incredible rate [3]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/14/china https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/14/china [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/chinese-mine-spray-painted-rocks-green-look-like-trees-trick-environment-authorities/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/chinese-mine-spray-painted-r... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china