7 ms·

they dont even know what it means, its just the big scary word.

lazyeye 1y ago
Either that or they understand exactly what it means, the actual reality of it as compared to the "sounds nice in theory..."
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  What's the reality of having a mayor who is described as socialist?
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    Well I guess he is "described" as a socialist in the same way the sky is "described" as blue. Your question is easy to answer...look at all of human history and around the world right now to see what you get when the far left gets their hands on the levers of power.
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      In the US, "socialist" describes the people supporting Medicare for All and the Green New Deal. So in the US, socialism would be a net positive.
    - archagon 1y ago
      I see European quality of life, not some imagined demons.
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      Yeah, we were plagued by [checks notes] the New Deal followed by multiple decades of American prosperity and the growth of the middle class.
      - shadowgovt 1y ago
        One of the more interesting parts of that story is that in that time, the fascists actually tried a takeover of the US government, executing on a plan to sideline the President and replace him with a shadow government. Fortunately, they failed. They tried to recruit a populist veteran into their ranks who had no particular love for a government that had abused its World War I veterans... But had less love for a bunch of (essentially) early-twentieth-century technocrats that had profited off the sacrifices of the veterans. He refused to keep the conspiracy and blew the lid off it, and his reputation was both public enough and spotless enough that the conspirators couldn't either silence him or tarnish him. Wikipedia overview is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot There are better scholarly sources for the details, but an entertaining source for a summary is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-insurrections-the-business-plot-when/id1373812661?i=1000507699889 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-insurrectio... (The conspirators were never prosecuted. One hypothesis as to why is that Roosevelt saw an opportunity and co-opted the plot: some of his New Deal policies were facing pushback and he might have put on the table for the conspirators "You can dodge a treason trial if you just back the new policy with your capital and your political will"). (p.s: I probably shouldn't extrapolate this historical anecdote to the modern era, but this story does give me reason to wonder if a rule like "In the industrial era, massive inequality due to under-regulated capitalism leads to attempts at reform, and those attempts breed counter-reform in the form of fascists and their sycophants formed by those who perceive they have the most to lose in reform..." might hold water).
        lazyeye 1y ago
        "I probably shouldn't extrapolate this historical anecdote to the modern era..." yes cherry-picked history taken in isolation is utterly meaningless. Just for balance here's some cherries I've picked on the left side of the political spectrum:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
        1y ago
    - cosmicgadget 1y ago
      Surely you understand that the word socialism means a lot of different things to different people? You argument is that this is "just generally bad"? Or somehow a socialist mayor will be the downfall of western civilization or something? It seems like if his policies are bad, he won't be reelected and you'll have a more succinct example to point to than "all of human history". The great thing about a mayor is that they have very limited ability to impact civil rights, Giuliani notwithstanding.
      - lazyeye 1y ago
        Well this rather small level of nuanced thinking you are suggesting is never applied to conservatives is it? So we'll take the same approach with liberals. What you are saying is effectively dog-whistling in support of Stalinism. And that means you support the killing millions of people. Clearly you are evil and your career should be destroyed. Look how smart and virtuous I am everybody!

Either that or they understand exactly what it means, the actual reality of it as compared to the "sounds nice in theory..."

cosmicgadget 1y ago
What's the reality of having a mayor who is described as socialist?
- lazyeye 1y ago
  Well I guess he is "described" as a socialist in the same way the sky is "described" as blue. Your question is easy to answer...look at all of human history and around the world right now to see what you get when the far left gets their hands on the levers of power.
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    In the US, "socialist" describes the people supporting Medicare for All and the Green New Deal. So in the US, socialism would be a net positive.
  - archagon 1y ago
    I see European quality of life, not some imagined demons.
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    Yeah, we were plagued by [checks notes] the New Deal followed by multiple decades of American prosperity and the growth of the middle class.
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      One of the more interesting parts of that story is that in that time, the fascists actually tried a takeover of the US government, executing on a plan to sideline the President and replace him with a shadow government. Fortunately, they failed. They tried to recruit a populist veteran into their ranks who had no particular love for a government that had abused its World War I veterans... But had less love for a bunch of (essentially) early-twentieth-century technocrats that had profited off the sacrifices of the veterans. He refused to keep the conspiracy and blew the lid off it, and his reputation was both public enough and spotless enough that the conspirators couldn't either silence him or tarnish him. Wikipedia overview is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot There are better scholarly sources for the details, but an entertaining source for a summary is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-insurrections-the-business-plot-when/id1373812661?i=1000507699889 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-insurrectio... (The conspirators were never prosecuted. One hypothesis as to why is that Roosevelt saw an opportunity and co-opted the plot: some of his New Deal policies were facing pushback and he might have put on the table for the conspirators "You can dodge a treason trial if you just back the new policy with your capital and your political will"). (p.s: I probably shouldn't extrapolate this historical anecdote to the modern era, but this story does give me reason to wonder if a rule like "In the industrial era, massive inequality due to under-regulated capitalism leads to attempts at reform, and those attempts breed counter-reform in the form of fascists and their sycophants formed by those who perceive they have the most to lose in reform..." might hold water).
      - lazyeye 1y ago
        "I probably shouldn't extrapolate this historical anecdote to the modern era..." yes cherry-picked history taken in isolation is utterly meaningless. Just for balance here's some cherries I've picked on the left side of the political spectrum:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
        1y ago
  - cosmicgadget 1y ago
    Surely you understand that the word socialism means a lot of different things to different people? You argument is that this is "just generally bad"? Or somehow a socialist mayor will be the downfall of western civilization or something? It seems like if his policies are bad, he won't be reelected and you'll have a more succinct example to point to than "all of human history". The great thing about a mayor is that they have very limited ability to impact civil rights, Giuliani notwithstanding.
    - lazyeye 1y ago
      Well this rather small level of nuanced thinking you are suggesting is never applied to conservatives is it? So we'll take the same approach with liberals. What you are saying is effectively dog-whistling in support of Stalinism. And that means you support the killing millions of people. Clearly you are evil and your career should be destroyed. Look how smart and virtuous I am everybody!