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Most of Africa which mostly hasn't been bombed by the West. Billions of charity investment.

defrost 1y ago
The west and the east are still gutting African resources to this day via a bunch of carrots and sticks that rarely include direct bombing by a Western country or China. Plenty of western mercenary groups supporting traditional land takeover by corporations, funding radical groups to destabilize effective governments forming or growing in strength is still ongoing.
- extraisland 1y ago
  Much of this is often hidden from the public. This argument that people should be somehow punished for actions of others that they are unaware of and have very little power over is insane IMO.
  - defrost 1y ago
    I doubt few are arguing that various Africans should be punished by losing their traditional farming land of many generations because of the iceberg lettuce consuming actions of others they are unaware of. None the less it continues to happen.
    - extraisland 1y ago
      They are not talking about the Africans. They are talking about the British. Immigration has had many negative effects on social cohesion in the UK. That is just an unfortunate fact. That is obvious if you have lived in poorer areas of some the cities in the UK. When this subject is normally broached on TV channels such as the BBC. The argument often put forth is that we should accept large amounts of immigration because of the the British Empire and the wars in the Middle-East. It is often framed as if we should accept it as a form of punishment.
      - churchill 1y ago
        I hear some Brits & immigrants raise that argument and it's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Can you imagine seeing yourself as a punishment to be inflicted upon someone else?
      - crikeykangaroo 1y ago
        Well, I wouldn't say punishment is exactly fair... But your government did not pay for reparations either, while at the same time, your government does hold other countries for doing so in their own wars (validly so).
        extraisland 1y ago
        > Well, I wouldn't say punishment is exactly fair That is how many of the left talk about it. Some are more coy than others, but nonetheless that is the theme. I certainly don't care for it and I certainly doesn't endear me to anyone making the argument. > But your government did not pay for reparations either, while at the same time, your government does hold other countries for doing so in their own wars (validly so). So? The vast majority of the people in country had nothing to do with those events.
        crikeykangaroo 1y ago
        Well... Too bad the government is (supposedly?) democratically elected by its people? Such actions may have consequences.
        extraisland 1y ago
        That unfortunately is a common fallacy that people engage in. In the first chapter of "Anatomy of the State" this idea is utterly demolished. > With the rise of democracy, the identification of the State with society has been redoubled, until it is common to hear sentiments expressed which violate virtually every tenet of reason and common sense such as, “we are the government.” The useful collective term “we” has enabled an ideological camouflage to be thrown over the reality of political life. If “we are the government,” then anything a government does to an individual is not only just and untyrannical but also “voluntary” on the part of the individual concerned. If the government has incurred a huge public debt which must be paid by taxing one group for the benefit of another, this reality of burden is obscured by saying that “we owe it to ourselves”; if the government conscripts a man, or throws him into jail for dissident opinion, then he is “doing it to himself” and, therefore, nothing untoward has occurred. Under this reasoning, any Jews murdered by the Nazi government were not murdered; instead, they must have “committed suicide,” since they were the government (which was democratically chosen), and, therefore, anything the government did to them was voluntary on their part. One would not think it necessary to belabor this point, and yet the overwhelming bulk of the people hold this fallacy to a greater or lesser degree.
jaggs 1y ago
Oh come on, Africa has been absolutely stripped of all its huge commodity, mineral and material wealth by the west for more than a century.
- password321 1y ago
  Africa is not a unique victim. Plenty of parts of the world have had mass enslavement, wars, genocide, pillaging, colonisation and are on their way up. Even North Korea is more well developed despite being an isolated communist state run by a mafia.
derelicta 1y ago
Western politicians and their capitalist economy required colonialism and imperialism. To this day, Westerners can't stay where they are without meddling in the affairs of others, and then they complain about it. But worry not, the economic development of Africa and Asia will soon render Europe and Amerika into very isolated and uninteresting parts of the world.
- Husieandr 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - derelicta 1y ago
    You tell that to the People's Republic of China, to Burkina Faso and many others. If you accepted your silly little racial capitalism wasn't completely obsolete and morally bankrupt, maybe there would be hope for you island people.
    - fentanyl_peyotl 1y ago
      China, known for its racial harmony and ethical business practices Tbh I do think we should look to them for how they deal with the Muslims
  - churchill 1y ago
    On one hand, I can understand your frustration at demographic & social changes. Everybody would be offended at that, no matter their race/nationality. On another, I think you're channeling your angst towards the wrong direction. Over the past 30-80 years, Western countries collected social security contributions from workers but instead of investing/saving them, spent it all like tax. To fund pensions for that now-aged generation, you need fresh, warm bodies to pay taxes. Sadly, that generation (boomers) had q modest fertility rate. They also live significantly longer than when social security became a norm in the West. 20-30 years more. So you need to tax their kids aggressively for longer to fund pensions & benefits for the boomers. Oh, and since the boomers' kids are having even fewer kids, it's a vicious cycle. One way to remedy this is to suck in taxpayers from other countries & put them to work paying for the comfort of the boomers until they shuffle off the mortal coil. So, here are your options: 1. Cut off the boomers and let them starve. But, it's untenable since their votes are a huge bloc and they'd revolt. 2. Expel every single immigrant and tax receipts will plummet. Your indig. young people will pay even more taxes to fund the boomers, unless you revert back to No. 1. Again, not tenable unless you abolish your democracy and establish a dictatorial state. 3. Maintain the current model and let it drag on. It did not have to be like this. You could have taken Singapore's path of accumulating massive reserves ($2.5 trillion for 6 million people), but you didn't. I hope you figure it out, but I don't think anything drastic will happen. Just like in Greece, when European lenders told them to impose austerity, leftist parties claimed they'd get into power and maintain all the benefits they'd promised the people. Fuck the globalists. But, they got into power and realized their finances were well and truly fucked and they had to quietly undergo restructuring despite all their huffing and puffing. Many immigrants commit crimes, yes, and I believe they need to be repressed. But, many others gratefully work and pay taxes. If you want to expel them, you need to be ready for the options above. Even if you are, many of your countrymen are not.
churchill 1y ago
Charity? I mean, it's an open secret that both sides understand that the bulk of the money sent to African countries isn't supposed to be spent on the people. It's a subsidy/bribe to their developing-world elites to keep them pliable and obedient to basically everything they're told. It's almost immediately laundered back into London & Paris real estate and Swiss bank accounts. Wait, you thought Western countries were handing out gibs/NEETbux to African countries just because they feel bad for them?
- extraisland 1y ago
  You are right the majority of people are indeed mislead about where the money is spent. How are people supposed to get things right when they are constantly misled by both their governments and intuitions?
crikeykangaroo 1y ago
Apparently, they don't teach history properly in Britain as well! No wonder things aren't going so well.
rich_sasha 1y ago
I recommend reading "the Heart of Darkness" about some pristine unbombed idyllic stretches of the Congo river. Written by a totally English person as well, Joseph Conrad. ... Actually, no, by an immigrant from Poland.

The west and the east are still gutting African resources to this day via a bunch of carrots and sticks that rarely include direct bombing by a Western country or China. Plenty of western mercenary groups supporting traditional land takeover by corporations, funding radical groups to destabilize effective governments forming or growing in strength is still ongoing.

extraisland 1y ago
Much of this is often hidden from the public. This argument that people should be somehow punished for actions of others that they are unaware of and have very little power over is insane IMO.
- defrost 1y ago
  I doubt few are arguing that various Africans should be punished by losing their traditional farming land of many generations because of the iceberg lettuce consuming actions of others they are unaware of. None the less it continues to happen.
  - extraisland 1y ago
    They are not talking about the Africans. They are talking about the British. Immigration has had many negative effects on social cohesion in the UK. That is just an unfortunate fact. That is obvious if you have lived in poorer areas of some the cities in the UK. When this subject is normally broached on TV channels such as the BBC. The argument often put forth is that we should accept large amounts of immigration because of the the British Empire and the wars in the Middle-East. It is often framed as if we should accept it as a form of punishment.
    - churchill 1y ago
      I hear some Brits & immigrants raise that argument and it's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Can you imagine seeing yourself as a punishment to be inflicted upon someone else?
    - crikeykangaroo 1y ago
      Well, I wouldn't say punishment is exactly fair... But your government did not pay for reparations either, while at the same time, your government does hold other countries for doing so in their own wars (validly so).
      - extraisland 1y ago
        > Well, I wouldn't say punishment is exactly fair That is how many of the left talk about it. Some are more coy than others, but nonetheless that is the theme. I certainly don't care for it and I certainly doesn't endear me to anyone making the argument. > But your government did not pay for reparations either, while at the same time, your government does hold other countries for doing so in their own wars (validly so). So? The vast majority of the people in country had nothing to do with those events.
        crikeykangaroo 1y ago
        Well... Too bad the government is (supposedly?) democratically elected by its people? Such actions may have consequences.
        extraisland 1y ago
        That unfortunately is a common fallacy that people engage in. In the first chapter of "Anatomy of the State" this idea is utterly demolished. > With the rise of democracy, the identification of the State with society has been redoubled, until it is common to hear sentiments expressed which violate virtually every tenet of reason and common sense such as, “we are the government.” The useful collective term “we” has enabled an ideological camouflage to be thrown over the reality of political life. If “we are the government,” then anything a government does to an individual is not only just and untyrannical but also “voluntary” on the part of the individual concerned. If the government has incurred a huge public debt which must be paid by taxing one group for the benefit of another, this reality of burden is obscured by saying that “we owe it to ourselves”; if the government conscripts a man, or throws him into jail for dissident opinion, then he is “doing it to himself” and, therefore, nothing untoward has occurred. Under this reasoning, any Jews murdered by the Nazi government were not murdered; instead, they must have “committed suicide,” since they were the government (which was democratically chosen), and, therefore, anything the government did to them was voluntary on their part. One would not think it necessary to belabor this point, and yet the overwhelming bulk of the people hold this fallacy to a greater or lesser degree.

jaggs 1y ago

Oh come on, Africa has been absolutely stripped of all its huge commodity, mineral and material wealth by the west for more than a century.

password321 1y ago
Africa is not a unique victim. Plenty of parts of the world have had mass enslavement, wars, genocide, pillaging, colonisation and are on their way up. Even North Korea is more well developed despite being an isolated communist state run by a mafia.

derelicta 1y ago

Western politicians and their capitalist economy required colonialism and imperialism. To this day, Westerners can't stay where they are without meddling in the affairs of others, and then they complain about it. But worry not, the economic development of Africa and Asia will soon render Europe and Amerika into very isolated and uninteresting parts of the world.

Husieandr 1y ago
[flagged]
- derelicta 1y ago
  You tell that to the People's Republic of China, to Burkina Faso and many others. If you accepted your silly little racial capitalism wasn't completely obsolete and morally bankrupt, maybe there would be hope for you island people.
  - fentanyl_peyotl 1y ago
    China, known for its racial harmony and ethical business practices Tbh I do think we should look to them for how they deal with the Muslims
- churchill 1y ago
  On one hand, I can understand your frustration at demographic & social changes. Everybody would be offended at that, no matter their race/nationality. On another, I think you're channeling your angst towards the wrong direction. Over the past 30-80 years, Western countries collected social security contributions from workers but instead of investing/saving them, spent it all like tax. To fund pensions for that now-aged generation, you need fresh, warm bodies to pay taxes. Sadly, that generation (boomers) had q modest fertility rate. They also live significantly longer than when social security became a norm in the West. 20-30 years more. So you need to tax their kids aggressively for longer to fund pensions & benefits for the boomers. Oh, and since the boomers' kids are having even fewer kids, it's a vicious cycle. One way to remedy this is to suck in taxpayers from other countries & put them to work paying for the comfort of the boomers until they shuffle off the mortal coil. So, here are your options: 1. Cut off the boomers and let them starve. But, it's untenable since their votes are a huge bloc and they'd revolt. 2. Expel every single immigrant and tax receipts will plummet. Your indig. young people will pay even more taxes to fund the boomers, unless you revert back to No. 1. Again, not tenable unless you abolish your democracy and establish a dictatorial state. 3. Maintain the current model and let it drag on. It did not have to be like this. You could have taken Singapore's path of accumulating massive reserves ($2.5 trillion for 6 million people), but you didn't. I hope you figure it out, but I don't think anything drastic will happen. Just like in Greece, when European lenders told them to impose austerity, leftist parties claimed they'd get into power and maintain all the benefits they'd promised the people. Fuck the globalists. But, they got into power and realized their finances were well and truly fucked and they had to quietly undergo restructuring despite all their huffing and puffing. Many immigrants commit crimes, yes, and I believe they need to be repressed. But, many others gratefully work and pay taxes. If you want to expel them, you need to be ready for the options above. Even if you are, many of your countrymen are not.

churchill 1y ago

Charity? I mean, it's an open secret that both sides understand that the bulk of the money sent to African countries isn't supposed to be spent on the people. It's a subsidy/bribe to their developing-world elites to keep them pliable and obedient to basically everything they're told. It's almost immediately laundered back into London & Paris real estate and Swiss bank accounts. Wait, you thought Western countries were handing out gibs/NEETbux to African countries just because they feel bad for them?

extraisland 1y ago
You are right the majority of people are indeed mislead about where the money is spent. How are people supposed to get things right when they are constantly misled by both their governments and intuitions?

crikeykangaroo 1y ago

Apparently, they don't teach history properly in Britain as well! No wonder things aren't going so well.

rich_sasha 1y ago

I recommend reading "the Heart of Darkness" about some pristine unbombed idyllic stretches of the Congo river. Written by a totally English person as well, Joseph Conrad. ... Actually, no, by an immigrant from Poland.