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>Why would BigTech care about the dozens of users using an open source password manager? Because big tech loves control. Just because you can't see the angle y

>Why would BigTech care about the dozens of users using an open source password manager? Because big tech loves control. Just because you can't see the angle yet, it doesn't mean there isn't one now, or won't be one later. It has been shown time and time again that they will take all the freedom away from you that they can.

johncolanduoni 1y ago
What instance have you seen where BigTech opted for control with no monetary incentive?
- 63stack 1y ago
  There is already an example of Microsoft selling passkeys with their own "secure (tm)" stamp on them, and not accepting anything else just a few comments down. Even if there wasn't already an example, it's easy to turn control into a revenue stream at a later time.
  - johncolanduoni 1y ago
    That is for their enterprise SaaS, and has an obvious profit motive (I.e. bundling). Do you think Chrome is going to start charging for using their passkey storage and then kick all the other apps off Chrome? > Even if there wasn't already an example, it's easy to turn control into a revenue stream at a later time. I think you’ll have to justify or qualify this a bit. If Google forces every website on Chrome to have a red background, how do they turn that control into a revenue stream later on?
    - 63stack 1y ago
      Saying "oh that's enterprise" is just moving the goal posts. Chrome has already started kicking off extensions, see ublock. I can't divine the future about how they will further their income streams.
      - johncolanduoni 1y ago
        No it’s not. My goalpost from the beginning was “show me an example where there wasn’t a clear monetary incentive for restricting user freedom”. That one has a monetary incentive (make our paying customer for product X also buy product Y). As for blocking things that block ads; if you can’t see the monetary incentive for Google there then I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t ask you to divine the future. I said “I’ve not seen them do X without trying to get Y” (a statement about the past), and you still haven’t given me a remotely credible example.
        fc417fc802 1y ago
        You will almost always be able to find a way to derive a monetary advantage from any given arbitrary restriction of user freedom. Thus your claimed goalposts are essentially pointless.
        johncolanduoni 1y ago
        Come on, I didn't come up with some 4D chess logic to impute a monetary advantage. In the examples people gave me, it was things like bundling (the oldest trick in the monopolist book) and ensuring that users look at your ads. Do you really think that if Chrome gets sued for blocking uBlock, that discovery won't find 1000 memos from executives and PMs at Google talking about how much money ensuring users have to see their ads would make?
        fc417fc802 1y ago
        Fair point, it's less immediately obvious. Still I don't see where 4D chess is necessary. Some levers let you make money directly. The effective use of others is more opaque but if you hoard enough of them you will presumably be able to figure something out. Where's the direct monetary incentive to interfere with end users installing a modified Android image? What about SafetyNet? At absolute minimum you can use it to influence the perception of your brand as being the gold standard.
        63stack 1y ago

johncolanduoni 1y ago

What instance have you seen where BigTech opted for control with no monetary incentive?

63stack 1y ago
There is already an example of Microsoft selling passkeys with their own "secure (tm)" stamp on them, and not accepting anything else just a few comments down. Even if there wasn't already an example, it's easy to turn control into a revenue stream at a later time.
- johncolanduoni 1y ago
  That is for their enterprise SaaS, and has an obvious profit motive (I.e. bundling). Do you think Chrome is going to start charging for using their passkey storage and then kick all the other apps off Chrome? > Even if there wasn't already an example, it's easy to turn control into a revenue stream at a later time. I think you’ll have to justify or qualify this a bit. If Google forces every website on Chrome to have a red background, how do they turn that control into a revenue stream later on?
  - 63stack 1y ago
    Saying "oh that's enterprise" is just moving the goal posts. Chrome has already started kicking off extensions, see ublock. I can't divine the future about how they will further their income streams.
    - johncolanduoni 1y ago
      No it’s not. My goalpost from the beginning was “show me an example where there wasn’t a clear monetary incentive for restricting user freedom”. That one has a monetary incentive (make our paying customer for product X also buy product Y). As for blocking things that block ads; if you can’t see the monetary incentive for Google there then I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t ask you to divine the future. I said “I’ve not seen them do X without trying to get Y” (a statement about the past), and you still haven’t given me a remotely credible example.
      - fc417fc802 1y ago
        You will almost always be able to find a way to derive a monetary advantage from any given arbitrary restriction of user freedom. Thus your claimed goalposts are essentially pointless.
        johncolanduoni 1y ago
        Come on, I didn't come up with some 4D chess logic to impute a monetary advantage. In the examples people gave me, it was things like bundling (the oldest trick in the monopolist book) and ensuring that users look at your ads. Do you really think that if Chrome gets sued for blocking uBlock, that discovery won't find 1000 memos from executives and PMs at Google talking about how much money ensuring users have to see their ads would make?
        fc417fc802 1y ago
        Fair point, it's less immediately obvious. Still I don't see where 4D chess is necessary. Some levers let you make money directly. The effective use of others is more opaque but if you hoard enough of them you will presumably be able to figure something out. Where's the direct monetary incentive to interfere with end users installing a modified Android image? What about SafetyNet? At absolute minimum you can use it to influence the perception of your brand as being the gold standard.
        63stack 1y ago