5 ms·

Vote them out and never vote for their parties in your general elections If your Member of European Parliament supports chat control stop voting for their part

Vote them out and never vote for their parties in your general elections If your Member of European Parliament supports chat control stop voting for their parties and politically support their opposition

progbits 1y ago
Not good enough. They can get in again next election.
vaylian 1y ago
I agree. But also: I've been doing that for a long time already. The problem is that these surveillance laws don't get enough attention by the general public until they come into effect. For example: The UK's online safety act.
- izacus 1y ago
  So make general public aware of them. Campaign. Inform. That's how democracies work. Don't expect others do to the legwork for your pet case.
kurthr 1y ago
Vote for an opposition which promises mass deportations? Certainly, they will never go back on their word to create a surveillance state?!? Asking your politicians to lie to you is not a substitute for changing their incentives. The key point to make is that once you're spying on your own people, you've created the single weakest point of entry for your geopolitical opponents spying on you and manipulating the population as well. It's such a dumb political move, it seems like it could only come from extreme fear, greed, or manipulation. Switch it around and make them afraid of the alternative.
- okucu 1y ago
  Can only speak for Germany and the mass deportations here are done by liberals. They also let 40k+ people drown in the Mediterranean, support literally every single war, support multiple genocides and export weapons to all dictatorships known to man. At this point I'm not sure the actual Nazis would be worse than liberals. Also very weird how whenever "liberals/centrists" are in power the (ultra) right gain lots of momentum. Must be the weather Almost forgot: we're also in our third year of recession and the only investments are made in the military industry to prep for starting the next world war
  - FinnKuhn 1y ago
    I don't want to get too political, but calling the CDU/CSU liberal is pretty misleading in this context considering that they are part of the EVP (conservative) on a European level and not Renew Europe (liberal).
    - okucu 1y ago
      What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? I'm talking about the same parties in general. Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs >I don't want to get too political Do you practice self censorship like the German media?
      - FinnKuhn 1y ago
        > What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? This whole thread is about EU politics. > Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs Trying to paint the greens as further right than CDU/CSU is just plain wrong by any measure. The greens are a green/social liberal party while the CDU/CSU are conservative center-right party. None of their politicians would ever argue that they are more left than the greens which is pretty obvious when looking at a quote from Friedrich Merz (German chancellor and party leader of the CDU/CSU) where he quite literally says that the greens are more left. [1] [1] https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/merz-gruene-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/merz-gruene-10... English: "In the coming weeks and months, we will once again significantly intensify the debate with the Greens and, above all, counter the impression that we are always looking to the left and saying that we absolutely must form a coalition with them at some point."
        okucu 1y ago
        The one I responded to was talking about something else. You trust what the parties are saying rather than what they're actually doing? Is this a joke? The biggest warmongering party the greens are supposed to be left? This is tagesschau levels of propaganda. You are talking about greens, the party that wants to deport everyone who criticizes Israel, sues everyone who insults them, and they literally warned against a "linksruck".
- gotoeleven 1y ago
  The surveillance state in europe is being created to make it illegal to oppose mass immigration policies, because apparently the powers that be have realized that not enough people like mass immigration so it needs to be forced down everyone's throat with a combination of censorship, surveillance and party-banning. From your comment, it seems like you support mass immigration policies but also do not support censorship and surveillance (maybe only for practical reasons because it might eventually be used against things you like?). The question for you is: what if you couldn't choose? What if you could only have both or neither? Because that's whats on offer.
- Levitz 1y ago
  >Vote for an opposition which promises mass deportations? Certainly, they will never go back on their word to create a surveillance state?!? Not quite a fan of deportations, but I'd rather risk people going back on their word than the alternative here. I wholeheartedly refuse to vote for anyone who publicly supports this. It is integral to democracy itself. If my only alternative is "The party of kicking kittens and opposing chatcontrol" I will 100% support them.
  - debugnik 1y ago
    Kicking kittens makes it sound simpler of a choice than it really is, because you're not a kitten and you could protect yours. Would you vote for "the party of beating people like Levitz and opposing chat control"?
    - Levitz 1y ago
      I'd probably start playing with the idea of leaving the country and advise people I know to do the same, at that point the country is not a democracy anymore either way. Hopefully I don't have to point out how there's a massive difference between that and considering mass deportations.
wqaatwt 1y ago
Problem is that very few “normal” people are even aware of this. Very few people particularly interested about most policies on the EU level. So they pretty much have free reign to do anything with minimal repercussions. For better or for worse the EU itself is about as much of a democracy as some of the European empires were back in the in early 1900s with their sham parliaments which had very little real power.
raxxorraxor 1y ago
Every member (aside 2 crazy people I believe) of the European Parliament voted for age verification and more user surveillance. It isn't salvageable. Maybe it is a result of sending the biggest idiots off to the EU when they failed in national politics, but the problem remains.
t0bia_s 1y ago
You still belive that vote solve anything? Divide and conquer is strong indeed. We should focus to abandoning giving our responsibility to unknown electorate.

progbits 1y ago

Not good enough. They can get in again next election.

vaylian 1y ago

I agree. But also: I've been doing that for a long time already. The problem is that these surveillance laws don't get enough attention by the general public until they come into effect. For example: The UK's online safety act.

izacus 1y ago
So make general public aware of them. Campaign. Inform. That's how democracies work. Don't expect others do to the legwork for your pet case.

kurthr 1y ago

Vote for an opposition which promises mass deportations? Certainly, they will never go back on their word to create a surveillance state?!? Asking your politicians to lie to you is not a substitute for changing their incentives. The key point to make is that once you're spying on your own people, you've created the single weakest point of entry for your geopolitical opponents spying on you and manipulating the population as well. It's such a dumb political move, it seems like it could only come from extreme fear, greed, or manipulation. Switch it around and make them afraid of the alternative.

okucu 1y ago
Can only speak for Germany and the mass deportations here are done by liberals. They also let 40k+ people drown in the Mediterranean, support literally every single war, support multiple genocides and export weapons to all dictatorships known to man. At this point I'm not sure the actual Nazis would be worse than liberals. Also very weird how whenever "liberals/centrists" are in power the (ultra) right gain lots of momentum. Must be the weather Almost forgot: we're also in our third year of recession and the only investments are made in the military industry to prep for starting the next world war
- FinnKuhn 1y ago
  I don't want to get too political, but calling the CDU/CSU liberal is pretty misleading in this context considering that they are part of the EVP (conservative) on a European level and not Renew Europe (liberal).
  - okucu 1y ago
    What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? I'm talking about the same parties in general. Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs >I don't want to get too political Do you practice self censorship like the German media?
    - FinnKuhn 1y ago
      > What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? This whole thread is about EU politics. > Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs Trying to paint the greens as further right than CDU/CSU is just plain wrong by any measure. The greens are a green/social liberal party while the CDU/CSU are conservative center-right party. None of their politicians would ever argue that they are more left than the greens which is pretty obvious when looking at a quote from Friedrich Merz (German chancellor and party leader of the CDU/CSU) where he quite literally says that the greens are more left. [1] [1] https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/merz-gruene-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/merz-gruene-10... English: "In the coming weeks and months, we will once again significantly intensify the debate with the Greens and, above all, counter the impression that we are always looking to the left and saying that we absolutely must form a coalition with them at some point."
      - okucu 1y ago
        The one I responded to was talking about something else. You trust what the parties are saying rather than what they're actually doing? Is this a joke? The biggest warmongering party the greens are supposed to be left? This is tagesschau levels of propaganda. You are talking about greens, the party that wants to deport everyone who criticizes Israel, sues everyone who insults them, and they literally warned against a "linksruck".
gotoeleven 1y ago
The surveillance state in europe is being created to make it illegal to oppose mass immigration policies, because apparently the powers that be have realized that not enough people like mass immigration so it needs to be forced down everyone's throat with a combination of censorship, surveillance and party-banning. From your comment, it seems like you support mass immigration policies but also do not support censorship and surveillance (maybe only for practical reasons because it might eventually be used against things you like?). The question for you is: what if you couldn't choose? What if you could only have both or neither? Because that's whats on offer.
Levitz 1y ago
>Vote for an opposition which promises mass deportations? Certainly, they will never go back on their word to create a surveillance state?!? Not quite a fan of deportations, but I'd rather risk people going back on their word than the alternative here. I wholeheartedly refuse to vote for anyone who publicly supports this. It is integral to democracy itself. If my only alternative is "The party of kicking kittens and opposing chatcontrol" I will 100% support them.
- debugnik 1y ago
  Kicking kittens makes it sound simpler of a choice than it really is, because you're not a kitten and you could protect yours. Would you vote for "the party of beating people like Levitz and opposing chat control"?
  - Levitz 1y ago
    I'd probably start playing with the idea of leaving the country and advise people I know to do the same, at that point the country is not a democracy anymore either way. Hopefully I don't have to point out how there's a massive difference between that and considering mass deportations.

wqaatwt 1y ago

Problem is that very few “normal” people are even aware of this. Very few people particularly interested about most policies on the EU level. So they pretty much have free reign to do anything with minimal repercussions. For better or for worse the EU itself is about as much of a democracy as some of the European empires were back in the in early 1900s with their sham parliaments which had very little real power.

raxxorraxor 1y ago

Every member (aside 2 crazy people I believe) of the European Parliament voted for age verification and more user surveillance. It isn't salvageable. Maybe it is a result of sending the biggest idiots off to the EU when they failed in national politics, but the problem remains.

t0bia_s 1y ago

You still belive that vote solve anything? Divide and conquer is strong indeed. We should focus to abandoning giving our responsibility to unknown electorate.