6 ms·

Israel's response was obvious as soon as the attack happened. "Oh, looks like they've got that excuse they've been wanting."

FabHK 1y ago
Why did Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza and dismantled its settlements in 2005? It gave them what they wanted, and look what it got in return. Murderous terrorism.
- lazyasciiart 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - FabHK 1y ago
    The Gaza strip borders both Israel and Egypt.
    - lazyasciiart 1y ago
      Egypt operates their border by Israeli approval. Israel controls any imports to Gaza, and any people moving in or out, and has done so officially since 2007. Edit: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaz...
      - breppp 1y ago
        And you think Egypt cannot decide to operate the border without Israeli approval? It seems like only Israel has agency in the middle east, why do you think it is so?
        viccis 1y ago
        Because the US regime changes or bombs any country into the dirt who challenges it? Why do you think they targeted the US for 9/11? Because they "hated our freedoms"?
        breppp 1y ago
        It's very doubtful the US will bomb Egypt over that, it didn't even bomb Egypt when it was directly involved in wars with Israel. Currently the Egyptians are in violations of the peace agreements with Israel over stationing military forces in Sinai, yet no bombs are falling. Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. Once the West has begun its control over Arab countries the idea in the 1920s has emerged where the reason why Islam lost its prominence is because they lost the "true" islam. Therefore the solution is to return to medieval Islam, similarly to fascism nostalgia to the Roman/German empires. In that context, even the fact that the United States exists as a cultural force and influences arab teens to wear jeans is a major threat. Don't be naive that it is all over Palestine, Islamism started prior to the existence of Israel.
        Gibbon1 1y ago
        Egypt tries to keep the border sealed because Hamas supplies money and weapons to Islamic terrorists in the northern Sinai. Notable Israel offered Gaza to Egypt as part of the Camp David Accords and Egypt didn't want it.
        viccis 1y ago
        >Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. You don't have to speculate. You can actually just look at what the bombers stated the purpose of their attack was. It wasn't part of a conquest; it was an attempt to punish us for our history in that region, with a very specific policy of ours mentioned explicitly by many of the masterminds of 9/11. The only Islamist movement seeking conquest in recent history was ISIS, which is why a lot of their attention was spent expanding their caliphate into their neighbors' territories rather than launching quixotic attacks at the US on our soil. I'm not including ISIS-K in this assessment, as they glow more than Langley.
- codedokode 1y ago
  Why did they build the settlements?
- Zacharias030 1y ago
  Why was there a permanent military occupation of Gaza before 2005?
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    Because the gazans kept starting then losing wars against israel and getting occupied is what happens when you lose wars?
  - tome 1y ago
    I'm having trouble understanding the notion of "permanent military occupation of Gaza before 2005". Just out of interest, who occupied Gaza before 1967? And who before 1948? And who before 1920?
literatepeople 1y ago
It's hard to describe to people who don't have family there, but this exactly. The goal is similar to American "manifest destiny". They want to, through whatever means necessary, displace (at best) the existing Palestinian population and take their land.
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  Israel wants the west bank and golan heights. Gaza is worthless, no one wants it. Israel tried to pay egypt to take it and egypt refused.
- beepbopboopp 1y ago
  Please explain to me what you mean. From my perspective, they handed over control of the region and have had countless opportunities since the handoff to occupy the land permanently had they so chosen. Couldn't it just as easily be argued that they no longer trust sharing a border with them?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 1y ago
    I feel like it would have been harder to get this far without international support had the Oct 7th attack not happened. I don’t know about you, but I’d be a bit more lenient if you’re trying to rescue civilian hostages. I don’t know anything about the impetus for the Oct 7th attack was, but you have to wonder why.
    - beepbopboopp 1y ago
      Im not following this comment. Please say it again.
- flyinglizard 1y ago
  Israelis voted in a government 20 years ago just to pull out from Gaza and give them their autonomy (which Gazans used to swiftly vote in Hamas, and that was the single and last time they had elections since). Saying Israel was interested in that land is disingenuous.
Spooky23 1y ago
There’s a case that it was darker than that. The IDF is arguably the best army of its type in the world. Yet the level of incompetence demonstrated when Hamas took the hostages was beyond incompetence. A retired general hopped in his car and rounded up a bunch of troops to extract his daughter. No officers were present in the area. It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death.
- lazyasciiart 1y ago
  There has been some commentary. For instance reports of rising levels of intense military activity on the border, sent by IDF female spotter squads on the border for months, were ignored by command centers. This was explained as “chauvinism” - crippling incompetence if true. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female-spotters-are-free-now-their-families-want-to-know-why-warnings-were-ignored https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female...
- viccis 1y ago
  >It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death. Yeah. "Weird." Kinda like how it was weird that a music festival was moved to be next to a military base that was the target of an operation that one of the greatest signals intelligence powers in the world "didn't know about" over a couple of years of planning. Weird that the IDF moved into the crowd instead of evacuating the festival. Weird that there were photos of massive numbers of bombed out cars that were disposed of before any forensics could happen. Kinda weird that IDF copters and tanks opened fire indiscriminately (or, sometimes, targeting Israelis due to Hannibal doctrine). Really "weird" operation all around. Seems like it really didn't have to happen the way it did.

FabHK 1y ago

Why did Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza and dismantled its settlements in 2005? It gave them what they wanted, and look what it got in return. Murderous terrorism.

lazyasciiart 1y ago
[flagged]
- FabHK 1y ago
  The Gaza strip borders both Israel and Egypt.
  - lazyasciiart 1y ago
    Egypt operates their border by Israeli approval. Israel controls any imports to Gaza, and any people moving in or out, and has done so officially since 2007. Edit: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaz...
    - breppp 1y ago
      And you think Egypt cannot decide to operate the border without Israeli approval? It seems like only Israel has agency in the middle east, why do you think it is so?
      - viccis 1y ago
        Because the US regime changes or bombs any country into the dirt who challenges it? Why do you think they targeted the US for 9/11? Because they "hated our freedoms"?
        breppp 1y ago
        It's very doubtful the US will bomb Egypt over that, it didn't even bomb Egypt when it was directly involved in wars with Israel. Currently the Egyptians are in violations of the peace agreements with Israel over stationing military forces in Sinai, yet no bombs are falling. Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. Once the West has begun its control over Arab countries the idea in the 1920s has emerged where the reason why Islam lost its prominence is because they lost the "true" islam. Therefore the solution is to return to medieval Islam, similarly to fascism nostalgia to the Roman/German empires. In that context, even the fact that the United States exists as a cultural force and influences arab teens to wear jeans is a major threat. Don't be naive that it is all over Palestine, Islamism started prior to the existence of Israel.
        Gibbon1 1y ago
        Egypt tries to keep the border sealed because Hamas supplies money and weapons to Islamic terrorists in the northern Sinai. Notable Israel offered Gaza to Egypt as part of the Camp David Accords and Egypt didn't want it.
        viccis 1y ago
        >Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. You don't have to speculate. You can actually just look at what the bombers stated the purpose of their attack was. It wasn't part of a conquest; it was an attempt to punish us for our history in that region, with a very specific policy of ours mentioned explicitly by many of the masterminds of 9/11. The only Islamist movement seeking conquest in recent history was ISIS, which is why a lot of their attention was spent expanding their caliphate into their neighbors' territories rather than launching quixotic attacks at the US on our soil. I'm not including ISIS-K in this assessment, as they glow more than Langley.
codedokode 1y ago
Why did they build the settlements?
Zacharias030 1y ago
Why was there a permanent military occupation of Gaza before 2005?
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  Because the gazans kept starting then losing wars against israel and getting occupied is what happens when you lose wars?
- tome 1y ago
  I'm having trouble understanding the notion of "permanent military occupation of Gaza before 2005". Just out of interest, who occupied Gaza before 1967? And who before 1948? And who before 1920?

literatepeople 1y ago

It's hard to describe to people who don't have family there, but this exactly. The goal is similar to American "manifest destiny". They want to, through whatever means necessary, displace (at best) the existing Palestinian population and take their land.

HDThoreaun 1y ago
Israel wants the west bank and golan heights. Gaza is worthless, no one wants it. Israel tried to pay egypt to take it and egypt refused.
beepbopboopp 1y ago
Please explain to me what you mean. From my perspective, they handed over control of the region and have had countless opportunities since the handoff to occupy the land permanently had they so chosen. Couldn't it just as easily be argued that they no longer trust sharing a border with them?
- 2muchcoffeeman 1y ago
  I feel like it would have been harder to get this far without international support had the Oct 7th attack not happened. I don’t know about you, but I’d be a bit more lenient if you’re trying to rescue civilian hostages. I don’t know anything about the impetus for the Oct 7th attack was, but you have to wonder why.
  - beepbopboopp 1y ago
    Im not following this comment. Please say it again.
flyinglizard 1y ago
Israelis voted in a government 20 years ago just to pull out from Gaza and give them their autonomy (which Gazans used to swiftly vote in Hamas, and that was the single and last time they had elections since). Saying Israel was interested in that land is disingenuous.

Spooky23 1y ago

There’s a case that it was darker than that. The IDF is arguably the best army of its type in the world. Yet the level of incompetence demonstrated when Hamas took the hostages was beyond incompetence. A retired general hopped in his car and rounded up a bunch of troops to extract his daughter. No officers were present in the area. It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death.

lazyasciiart 1y ago
There has been some commentary. For instance reports of rising levels of intense military activity on the border, sent by IDF female spotter squads on the border for months, were ignored by command centers. This was explained as “chauvinism” - crippling incompetence if true. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female-spotters-are-free-now-their-families-want-to-know-why-warnings-were-ignored https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female...
viccis 1y ago
>It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death. Yeah. "Weird." Kinda like how it was weird that a music festival was moved to be next to a military base that was the target of an operation that one of the greatest signals intelligence powers in the world "didn't know about" over a couple of years of planning. Weird that the IDF moved into the crowd instead of evacuating the festival. Weird that there were photos of massive numbers of bombed out cars that were disposed of before any forensics could happen. Kinda weird that IDF copters and tanks opened fire indiscriminately (or, sometimes, targeting Israelis due to Hannibal doctrine). Really "weird" operation all around. Seems like it really didn't have to happen the way it did.