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You can use that app in different ways: 1) you dated a guy on tinder, he became all pushy on your first date, touched you inappropriately even though you said

You can use that app in different ways: 1) you dated a guy on tinder, he became all pushy on your first date, touched you inappropriately even though you said no. Or some guy became violent during your relationship and you even found out he has a history of that. 2) you dated a nice guy but he dumped you for whatever reason, and now you want to get back at him so you make up stuff like mentioned above, and post it there.

eastbound 1y ago
3) You’re in competition with someone at work and you want to make his life difficult. You want to blackmail someone into promoting you, etc.
raincole 1y ago
In other words it's a slander platform. Got it.
- mandmandam 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - atoav 1y ago
    I was curious what the percentage of false allegations are, as this is often quoted as a problem by men online¹. The conclusion of my research is that the rate of false reports is essentially the same as for any other crime (so somewhere in the single digits). ¹: I am a man myself and I understand that men feel threatened this may happen to them. But I personally know multiple women who experienced sexual violence and zero men who were accused of rape
    - typewithrhythm 1y ago
      The statistics are hard to come by, but at a glance the rate of successful rape convictions is similar to the rate of proven false allegation. And both are in the single digits. So how to neutrally approach this? If you ignore cases without a conviction it's close to 50/50. Seems implausibly high though. And then how do you factor in everything that didn't go to court?
    - soraminazuki 1y ago
      Running a Kiwi Farms clone isn't how you combat sexual violence or any other heinous crime.
      - kelseyfrog 1y ago
        Explain how you do it then. Propose an idea so much better that it makes kiwi farms clones obsolete.
        soraminazuki 1y ago
        Improve the justice system. That's the only answer. There is nothing worse than adding more injustice to the world because of some other injustice. And being righteous about it.
        kelseyfrog 1y ago
        25 of every 1000 rapes ends in a conviction(2.5%)[1]. What percent would you estimate that would have to increase to in order to count as a large enough improvement to the justice system to obsolete the need for whisper networks? 1. https://rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system https://rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
        soraminazuki 1y ago
        There is no "need" for the destruction of justice and the rule of law. Citing crime statistics doesn't change this fact. You're literally bringing up the "tough on crime" rhetoric yet again, it's been used as justification for the kind of things you're promoting since the start of time, and not once has it brought about a better outcome.
  - Amezarak 1y ago
    I think the problem is the framing. The problem is with people, not men or women, but women get most of the focus. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2663360/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2663360/ > There is increasing evidence to suggest that women commit as much or more IPV as men (Archer, 2000; Melton & Belknap, 2003). Among adolescents, research consistently shows that females perpetrate more acts of violence in intimate relationships than males. or: http://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm http://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm > Anderson (1998, 1996), presented self-reported prevalence rates for women's sexual coercion of between 25% and 40% and for physically forced sexual contact between 1.6% and 7.1%. Of perhaps greater significance was the women's self-reports of engaging in a classic date-rape scenario - taking advantage of someone who was under the influence of alcohol or drugs. When asked about initiating sexual contact with a man when his judgment was impaired by drugs or alcohol, between 32% and 51% of the women said that they had. Further, between 5% and 15% of women reported giving a man alcohol or drugs in an attempt to have sexual contact with him. Obviously, these self-reported female rapists are going almost completely unpunished! Everyone needs equal access to these groups. That also solves the problem of libelous claims that the victim doesn't have an opportunity to address.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    Your argument boils down to "there are very bad people out there so we need another Kiwi Farms to fight this." I have heard this type of rhetoric so many times and it makes me sick to the stomach every single time. So much evil are done in the name of protecting victimized people from the worst offenders. Police militarization, illegal mass surveillance, censorship, extraordinary renditions, torture, invasions, using civilian starvation as a tool for war, killing medical workers, and many many more. Doesn't make any of it right.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      "Women having a platform to talk with each other without men is somehow equivalent to killing medical workers and torture". See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. That said, I am having trouble figuring out how you manage to compare an online stalking and bullying website to a forum where women can warn each other of serial assaulters. The intention is clearly entirely different, even if both are open to abuse (like every forum of every type ever).
      - soraminazuki 1y ago
        > See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". You demonstrated a straw man argument. I called you out for using a certain type of rhetoric, commonly referred to as "think of the children." There's a big difference. I "boiled down" your argument to the type of rhetoric being used. > However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. How ironic. You first presented an example of a bad faith reinterpretation of my comment to demonstrate a fallacy. But then repeated that same reinterpretation in your own argument. How can you present a bad example, and then immediately follow that example? You also took my use of the term "boil down" out of context. That too isn't the "best possible interpretation." > The intention is clearly entirely different The pretext doesn't matter. The "intention" of killing medical workers may be fighting terrorism. Doesn't make it right. I'm not even sure that there's a difference in pretext either between this and Kiwi Farms. Both userbases claim to expose bad people.
  - sigwinch 1y ago
    To stay on topic, what mechanism of this app theoretically promotes more honest reporting of sex assault?
    - sigwinch 1y ago
      As in, most men are not capable of rape. And desire to meaningfully change those statistics. What part of this app can help? Without storing my daughter’s ID Without publicizing some guys immigration status Without gamifying a facial recognition search against police crime sketches
smeeger 1y ago
you forgot the most common use cases in practice: a man you work with slighted you in some small way. now hes going to have sexual assault red flags. the HR lady who already hates men will look you up on tea and decline to hire you because you dont have green flags.
soraminazuki 1y ago
That's PR speak for saying that it's a Kiwi Farms clone. I'm sure the two userbases even share their sense of righteousness regarding their own actions. This case couldn't be more clear cut. It's horrid, and the people running the sites should be held accountable. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when it will inevitably cost innocent lives, sooner or later.

eastbound 1y ago

3) You’re in competition with someone at work and you want to make his life difficult. You want to blackmail someone into promoting you, etc.

raincole 1y ago

In other words it's a slander platform. Got it.

mandmandam 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- atoav 1y ago
  I was curious what the percentage of false allegations are, as this is often quoted as a problem by men online¹. The conclusion of my research is that the rate of false reports is essentially the same as for any other crime (so somewhere in the single digits). ¹: I am a man myself and I understand that men feel threatened this may happen to them. But I personally know multiple women who experienced sexual violence and zero men who were accused of rape
  - typewithrhythm 1y ago
    The statistics are hard to come by, but at a glance the rate of successful rape convictions is similar to the rate of proven false allegation. And both are in the single digits. So how to neutrally approach this? If you ignore cases without a conviction it's close to 50/50. Seems implausibly high though. And then how do you factor in everything that didn't go to court?
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    Running a Kiwi Farms clone isn't how you combat sexual violence or any other heinous crime.
    - kelseyfrog 1y ago
      Explain how you do it then. Propose an idea so much better that it makes kiwi farms clones obsolete.
      - soraminazuki 1y ago
        Improve the justice system. That's the only answer. There is nothing worse than adding more injustice to the world because of some other injustice. And being righteous about it.
        kelseyfrog 1y ago
        25 of every 1000 rapes ends in a conviction(2.5%)[1]. What percent would you estimate that would have to increase to in order to count as a large enough improvement to the justice system to obsolete the need for whisper networks? 1. https://rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system https://rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
        soraminazuki 1y ago
        There is no "need" for the destruction of justice and the rule of law. Citing crime statistics doesn't change this fact. You're literally bringing up the "tough on crime" rhetoric yet again, it's been used as justification for the kind of things you're promoting since the start of time, and not once has it brought about a better outcome.
- Amezarak 1y ago
  I think the problem is the framing. The problem is with people, not men or women, but women get most of the focus. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2663360/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2663360/ > There is increasing evidence to suggest that women commit as much or more IPV as men (Archer, 2000; Melton & Belknap, 2003). Among adolescents, research consistently shows that females perpetrate more acts of violence in intimate relationships than males. or: http://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm http://www.ejhs.org/volume5/deviancetonormal.htm > Anderson (1998, 1996), presented self-reported prevalence rates for women's sexual coercion of between 25% and 40% and for physically forced sexual contact between 1.6% and 7.1%. Of perhaps greater significance was the women's self-reports of engaging in a classic date-rape scenario - taking advantage of someone who was under the influence of alcohol or drugs. When asked about initiating sexual contact with a man when his judgment was impaired by drugs or alcohol, between 32% and 51% of the women said that they had. Further, between 5% and 15% of women reported giving a man alcohol or drugs in an attempt to have sexual contact with him. Obviously, these self-reported female rapists are going almost completely unpunished! Everyone needs equal access to these groups. That also solves the problem of libelous claims that the victim doesn't have an opportunity to address.
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  Your argument boils down to "there are very bad people out there so we need another Kiwi Farms to fight this." I have heard this type of rhetoric so many times and it makes me sick to the stomach every single time. So much evil are done in the name of protecting victimized people from the worst offenders. Police militarization, illegal mass surveillance, censorship, extraordinary renditions, torture, invasions, using civilian starvation as a tool for war, killing medical workers, and many many more. Doesn't make any of it right.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    "Women having a platform to talk with each other without men is somehow equivalent to killing medical workers and torture". See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. That said, I am having trouble figuring out how you manage to compare an online stalking and bullying website to a forum where women can warn each other of serial assaulters. The intention is clearly entirely different, even if both are open to abuse (like every forum of every type ever).
    - soraminazuki 1y ago
      > See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". You demonstrated a straw man argument. I called you out for using a certain type of rhetoric, commonly referred to as "think of the children." There's a big difference. I "boiled down" your argument to the type of rhetoric being used. > However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. How ironic. You first presented an example of a bad faith reinterpretation of my comment to demonstrate a fallacy. But then repeated that same reinterpretation in your own argument. How can you present a bad example, and then immediately follow that example? You also took my use of the term "boil down" out of context. That too isn't the "best possible interpretation." > The intention is clearly entirely different The pretext doesn't matter. The "intention" of killing medical workers may be fighting terrorism. Doesn't make it right. I'm not even sure that there's a difference in pretext either between this and Kiwi Farms. Both userbases claim to expose bad people.
- sigwinch 1y ago
  To stay on topic, what mechanism of this app theoretically promotes more honest reporting of sex assault?
  - sigwinch 1y ago
    As in, most men are not capable of rape. And desire to meaningfully change those statistics. What part of this app can help? Without storing my daughter’s ID Without publicizing some guys immigration status Without gamifying a facial recognition search against police crime sketches

smeeger 1y ago

you forgot the most common use cases in practice: a man you work with slighted you in some small way. now hes going to have sexual assault red flags. the HR lady who already hates men will look you up on tea and decline to hire you because you dont have green flags.

soraminazuki 1y ago

That's PR speak for saying that it's a Kiwi Farms clone. I'm sure the two userbases even share their sense of righteousness regarding their own actions. This case couldn't be more clear cut. It's horrid, and the people running the sites should be held accountable. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when it will inevitably cost innocent lives, sooner or later.