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I see the war in Ukraine as one of them. They have huge areas of farm land, valuable in times where climate change makes farming impossible in other regions. An

I see the war in Ukraine as one of them. They have huge areas of farm land, valuable in times where climate change makes farming impossible in other regions. And many big companies and countries are already invested in there. You can already see how dependent some countries are on this base on the different price spikes. (While the question remains if farm products should be traded on stock markets).

phtrivier 1y ago
I can also be interpreted as an "energy-transition" war, given how the territories captured by Russia "just happen" to contain the mines... [1] So if we stop buying oil & gas from Russia, and instead buy batteries made in part out of "Russian" minerals from Eastern-Ukraine... yaay progress, I guess ? [1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-resources/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-res...
jajko 1y ago
There are massive oil, gas and metal reserves on eastern Ukraine. Sure, russia has those too but as a nation they are the very definition of greedy. When you have parts of their mafia state fighting for a bigger grab of money and power, you end up with such wars.
vidarh 1y ago
I see the war in Ukraine as more of a war for people that has gone badly wrong. Russia (the same applies to Ukraine) has birth rates far below replacement, and faces total demographic collapse if they can't reverse it. Russia also won't need more farmland. Russia has far more land. Especially as climate change if anything is likely to open up regions further north where farming has not been practical - in that respect, Russia is better placed that most other countries (including Ukraine) to see off the worst effects of climate change -, but also because their crashing population will reduce their agricultural demand. Doesn't mean Putin doesn't also want the land and resources, but if taking over Ukraine were to shore up Russia's population and buy them decades to solve the demographic problem, I think that would be far more economically valuable to him. See e.g. also the large-scale abduction of children from the occupied areas, that while a classic way to try to destroy an enemy is also a move that "makes sense" (though of course reprehensible) to someone who is worried about the very perpetuation of his people. Of course, then he failed to get the quick win, and the potential win is literally bleeding away on the battlefield, to the point where there's every reason to question whether Russia will survive the after-effects of this as a country 20-30 years down the line.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Your comment of Russia invading Ukraine in order to get people to replenish demographics makes zero sense, when Ukraine was also having the same demographic issue, let alone the fact you can't easily assimilate people you just conquered since they'll hate you and revolt, and the fact that Ukrainians are free to flee west if Russia were to manage to take the whole country. No matter how you slice it, what you said just makes no sense.
  - vidarh 1y ago
    Ukraine has the same declining population, yes, but it would still mean a 40m+ injection of people. It'd also mean the ability to selectively drain Ukraine of parts of the population, which we've already seen one example of: Large-scale abduction of children. With respect to assimiliation, you 1) assume rational people, 2) assume they accept that they will be unable to subjugate Ukraine the same way they're keeping control over a country where every single region have independence movements. Again: They've already engaged in large-scale abduction of children - you're not dealing with a rational adversary. As for people fleeing west, there is still substantial population in the occupied territories, as direct evidence that they'd still keep a substantial population. I think your arguments makes just as little sense as you claim mine does.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      > but it would still mean a 40m+ injection of people. HOW?! Ukrainians aren't bolted to that land you know. They can just leave for safety to the EU if Russia were to take over the whole country. People aren't interchangeable cogs of equal usefulness. What would Russia do with millions of Ukrainian retirees as the youth flee? >Large-scale abduction of children. Can you share any sources of this "large scale abduction"? Are you saying the Ukrainian parents just left tens of thousands of kids behind for the Russians to abduct as they made their way through a few KM of countryside in the eastern part of Ukraine? Sorry, I'm not buying this without proper sources. Not saying a few kids haven't been abducted in the war, I'm saying it's not enough for this to be the main reason Russia invaded as you originally claimed since if that were the reason, then it's a very bad return on investment to justify the exorbitant costs in money and bodies of a full scale war just to gain a few abducted kids added to your population.
southernplaces7 1y ago
>They have huge areas of farm land, valuable in times where climate change makes farming impossible in other regions Have you put any genuine thought into what you're saying about that specific war? If any country on Earth aside from maybe Canada would benefit agriculturally from warming climate, it's Russia. I can assure you that despite its many problems, feeding its badly decreasing population isn't one of them even now, and especially not to the point of having to invade another state over it. Let's not misplace blame here in ridiculous ways. Putin started that particular heap of idiocy, with zero climate-related need to do so. He did it for a bunch of half-baked political/social/historical reasons pulled right out of his own ass.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Agriculture in Russia might not being doing so good even with increased areas under cultivation ... https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lulihhfjf224 https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lulihhfj...

phtrivier 1y ago

I can also be interpreted as an "energy-transition" war, given how the territories captured by Russia "just happen" to contain the mines... [1] So if we stop buying oil & gas from Russia, and instead buy batteries made in part out of "Russian" minerals from Eastern-Ukraine... yaay progress, I guess ? [1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-resources/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-res...

jajko 1y ago

There are massive oil, gas and metal reserves on eastern Ukraine. Sure, russia has those too but as a nation they are the very definition of greedy. When you have parts of their mafia state fighting for a bigger grab of money and power, you end up with such wars.

vidarh 1y ago

I see the war in Ukraine as more of a war for people that has gone badly wrong. Russia (the same applies to Ukraine) has birth rates far below replacement, and faces total demographic collapse if they can't reverse it. Russia also won't need more farmland. Russia has far more land. Especially as climate change if anything is likely to open up regions further north where farming has not been practical - in that respect, Russia is better placed that most other countries (including Ukraine) to see off the worst effects of climate change -, but also because their crashing population will reduce their agricultural demand. Doesn't mean Putin doesn't also want the land and resources, but if taking over Ukraine were to shore up Russia's population and buy them decades to solve the demographic problem, I think that would be far more economically valuable to him. See e.g. also the large-scale abduction of children from the occupied areas, that while a classic way to try to destroy an enemy is also a move that "makes sense" (though of course reprehensible) to someone who is worried about the very perpetuation of his people. Of course, then he failed to get the quick win, and the potential win is literally bleeding away on the battlefield, to the point where there's every reason to question whether Russia will survive the after-effects of this as a country 20-30 years down the line.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Your comment of Russia invading Ukraine in order to get people to replenish demographics makes zero sense, when Ukraine was also having the same demographic issue, let alone the fact you can't easily assimilate people you just conquered since they'll hate you and revolt, and the fact that Ukrainians are free to flee west if Russia were to manage to take the whole country. No matter how you slice it, what you said just makes no sense.
- vidarh 1y ago
  Ukraine has the same declining population, yes, but it would still mean a 40m+ injection of people. It'd also mean the ability to selectively drain Ukraine of parts of the population, which we've already seen one example of: Large-scale abduction of children. With respect to assimiliation, you 1) assume rational people, 2) assume they accept that they will be unable to subjugate Ukraine the same way they're keeping control over a country where every single region have independence movements. Again: They've already engaged in large-scale abduction of children - you're not dealing with a rational adversary. As for people fleeing west, there is still substantial population in the occupied territories, as direct evidence that they'd still keep a substantial population. I think your arguments makes just as little sense as you claim mine does.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    > but it would still mean a 40m+ injection of people. HOW?! Ukrainians aren't bolted to that land you know. They can just leave for safety to the EU if Russia were to take over the whole country. People aren't interchangeable cogs of equal usefulness. What would Russia do with millions of Ukrainian retirees as the youth flee? >Large-scale abduction of children. Can you share any sources of this "large scale abduction"? Are you saying the Ukrainian parents just left tens of thousands of kids behind for the Russians to abduct as they made their way through a few KM of countryside in the eastern part of Ukraine? Sorry, I'm not buying this without proper sources. Not saying a few kids haven't been abducted in the war, I'm saying it's not enough for this to be the main reason Russia invaded as you originally claimed since if that were the reason, then it's a very bad return on investment to justify the exorbitant costs in money and bodies of a full scale war just to gain a few abducted kids added to your population.

southernplaces7 1y ago

>They have huge areas of farm land, valuable in times where climate change makes farming impossible in other regions Have you put any genuine thought into what you're saying about that specific war? If any country on Earth aside from maybe Canada would benefit agriculturally from warming climate, it's Russia. I can assure you that despite its many problems, feeding its badly decreasing population isn't one of them even now, and especially not to the point of having to invade another state over it. Let's not misplace blame here in ridiculous ways. Putin started that particular heap of idiocy, with zero climate-related need to do so. He did it for a bunch of half-baked political/social/historical reasons pulled right out of his own ass.

_DeadFred_ 1y ago
Agriculture in Russia might not being doing so good even with increased areas under cultivation ... https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lulihhfjf224 https://bsky.app/profile/prune602.bsky.social/post/3lulihhfj...