5 ms·

It's basically impossible to prevent people from using VPNs without some serious governmental control over every telco - which of course may be the case in the

It's basically impossible to prevent people from using VPNs without some serious governmental control over every telco - which of course may be the case in the UK, but I don't think a site operator can be held liable for that in any sane way.

bink 1y ago
It's one thing to not try to prevent people from circumventing the law, it's quite another to encourage them to do so.
- iLoveOncall 1y ago
  As the website says, it's not illegal for users in the UK to circumvent the restrictions using a VPN, so they're not recommending anything illegal.
  - closewith 1y ago
    This is the kind of comment you get from someone who's never interacted with a Western legal system. Any kind of winking reference is immediately seen through.
    - Spivak 1y ago
      I think you assume the fact that it's a winking reference means they have to use a winking reference. It seems like it would be legal for them to post a full guide for UK users on how to access their site using a VPN service. There's literally "Best VPNs For Accessing Porn in the UK" articles, they'll be fine.
      - Mindwipe 1y ago
        > It seems like it would be legal for them to post a full guide for UK users on how to access their site using a VPN service. It isn't, the Ofcom OSA act codes explicitly say that the site cannot explicitly tell people how to get past it's verification methods. > There's literally "Best VPNs For Accessing Porn in the UK" articles, they'll be fine. They're on journalism sites that are explicitly exempted from the law, so they aren't advocating for getting around that specific site's methods. It will be interesting to see how this works on any social platform though. To my reading of the guidance Ofcom require Reddit, BlueSky/Twitter etc to block any posts discussing using a VPN to get around it, or at least require age verification to access those posts too. But I think that contradicts other parts of the legislation, and Ofcom have got themselves into quite a predictable mess.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      I’d personally be interested in a risk analysis by a lawyer for that statement but it doesn’t seem particularly problematic. It does not seem to be actual encouragement to use a VPN, just acknowledgement that they exist.
  - lucb1e 1y ago
    > for users in the UK Yes, but the recommendation was for the platform, not the users ("For a site operator who seems really concerned about potential liability", emphasis added). Spelling out how anyone (including minors) can get to the site without any age check may not be an issue for users' own good but a liability for the platform Not saying I agree or disagree, just clarifying what the text above meant
  - Mindwipe 1y ago
    The law does require sites to not explicitly advocate a specific method for bypassing the checks (or to allow third parties to do so on it's platform, so it'll be interesting to see how that works for Reddit). But I doubt this is specific enough to hit that bar - it is more of a factual note about what the law is for UK users rather than a specific call of "don't use our verification methods, use a VPN instead."
- crazylogger 1y ago
  Circumvention means you're following the law after all, i.e. you're circumventing, not breaking it. Every other Youtuber these days is thanking NordVPN for sponsoring their channel then proceeds to walk through specifically how to use it to view geoblocked Netflix content, and they (and NordVPN!) are fine.
  - crtasm 1y ago
    I'm not sure that's relevant? Netflix ToS is not a law.
harvey9 1y ago
China's great firewall is reported to take resources the UK just couldn't muster. The UK is still at the level of storing highly classified information in Excel and sending it by email.
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  What's wrong with email? I keep seeing "email is not secure means of communication" but doesn't email use TLS?
  - harvey9 1y ago
    It's the document control aspect rather than the protocol. Preferable in this sort of work that authorised users log into a proper case management system, rather than pass around a document with all the data.
  - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
    Not all the time. You don’t control the mta to mta protocol - it could be plain smtp over port 25.
- elcritch 1y ago
  That's actually a feature. Whistle blowers and leaks like Snowdens are helped by these antiquated setups.
foldr 1y ago
> which of course may be the case in the UK People aren’t prevented from using VPNs in the UK, in case anyone is unclear on this.

bink 1y ago

It's one thing to not try to prevent people from circumventing the law, it's quite another to encourage them to do so.

iLoveOncall 1y ago
As the website says, it's not illegal for users in the UK to circumvent the restrictions using a VPN, so they're not recommending anything illegal.
- closewith 1y ago
  This is the kind of comment you get from someone who's never interacted with a Western legal system. Any kind of winking reference is immediately seen through.
  - Spivak 1y ago
    I think you assume the fact that it's a winking reference means they have to use a winking reference. It seems like it would be legal for them to post a full guide for UK users on how to access their site using a VPN service. There's literally "Best VPNs For Accessing Porn in the UK" articles, they'll be fine.
    - Mindwipe 1y ago
      > It seems like it would be legal for them to post a full guide for UK users on how to access their site using a VPN service. It isn't, the Ofcom OSA act codes explicitly say that the site cannot explicitly tell people how to get past it's verification methods. > There's literally "Best VPNs For Accessing Porn in the UK" articles, they'll be fine. They're on journalism sites that are explicitly exempted from the law, so they aren't advocating for getting around that specific site's methods. It will be interesting to see how this works on any social platform though. To my reading of the guidance Ofcom require Reddit, BlueSky/Twitter etc to block any posts discussing using a VPN to get around it, or at least require age verification to access those posts too. But I think that contradicts other parts of the legislation, and Ofcom have got themselves into quite a predictable mess.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    I’d personally be interested in a risk analysis by a lawyer for that statement but it doesn’t seem particularly problematic. It does not seem to be actual encouragement to use a VPN, just acknowledgement that they exist.
- lucb1e 1y ago
  > for users in the UK Yes, but the recommendation was for the platform, not the users ("For a site operator who seems really concerned about potential liability", emphasis added). Spelling out how anyone (including minors) can get to the site without any age check may not be an issue for users' own good but a liability for the platform Not saying I agree or disagree, just clarifying what the text above meant
- Mindwipe 1y ago
  The law does require sites to not explicitly advocate a specific method for bypassing the checks (or to allow third parties to do so on it's platform, so it'll be interesting to see how that works for Reddit). But I doubt this is specific enough to hit that bar - it is more of a factual note about what the law is for UK users rather than a specific call of "don't use our verification methods, use a VPN instead."
crazylogger 1y ago
Circumvention means you're following the law after all, i.e. you're circumventing, not breaking it. Every other Youtuber these days is thanking NordVPN for sponsoring their channel then proceeds to walk through specifically how to use it to view geoblocked Netflix content, and they (and NordVPN!) are fine.
- crtasm 1y ago
  I'm not sure that's relevant? Netflix ToS is not a law.

harvey9 1y ago

China's great firewall is reported to take resources the UK just couldn't muster. The UK is still at the level of storing highly classified information in Excel and sending it by email.

koakuma-chan 1y ago
What's wrong with email? I keep seeing "email is not secure means of communication" but doesn't email use TLS?
- harvey9 1y ago
  It's the document control aspect rather than the protocol. Preferable in this sort of work that authorised users log into a proper case management system, rather than pass around a document with all the data.
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  Not all the time. You don’t control the mta to mta protocol - it could be plain smtp over port 25.
elcritch 1y ago
That's actually a feature. Whistle blowers and leaks like Snowdens are helped by these antiquated setups.

foldr 1y ago

> which of course may be the case in the UK People aren’t prevented from using VPNs in the UK, in case anyone is unclear on this.