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I certainly didn't take to Nix the first few times I looked at it. The language itself is unusual and the error messages leave much to be desired. And the split

I certainly didn't take to Nix the first few times I looked at it. The language itself is unusual and the error messages leave much to be desired. And the split around Flakes just complicates things further (though I do recommend using them, once you set it up, it's simple and the added reproducibility gives nice peace of mind) But once I fully understood how it's features really make it easy for you to recover from mistakes and how useful the package options available from nixpkgs are, I decided it was time to sink in and figure it out. Looking at other folks nix config on GitHub (especially for specific services you're wanting to use) is incredibly helpful (mine is also linked in the post) I certainly don't consider myself to be a nix expert, but the nice thing is you can do most things by using other examples and modifying them till you feel good about it. Then overtime you just get more familiar with and just grow your skill Oh man, having a 25U rack sounds really fun. I have a moderate size cabinet I keep my server, desktop, a UPS, 10Gig switch, and my little fanless Home Assistant box. What's yours look like? I should add it to the article, but one of my anti-requirements was anything in the realm of high availability. It's neat tech to play with, but I can deal with downtime for most things if the trade off is everything being much simpler. I've played a little bit with Kubernetes at work, but that is a whole ecosystem I've yet to tackle

elevation 1y ago
Re: Nix, how do you run a service for which there is not a nix package? Or what if you need to build a service differently from how it's packaged for nix? For instance, you want a build of OpenLDAP with Argon2 or bcrypt support.
- Aerbil313 1y ago
  You write a nix package, modify other nix packages in nixpkgs, write overlays, and so on. Nix can package any software, build containers or OS images, the sky is not the limit. But first you have to invest (estimated) 2-3 weeks to learn it properly. Hell of a learning curve.
redrove 1y ago
>The language itself is unusual and the error messages leave much to be desired. And the split around Flakes just complicates things further Those are my chief complaints as well, actually. I never quite got to the point where I grasped how all the bits fit together. I understand the DSL (though the errors are cryptic as you said) and the flakes seemed recommended by everyone yet felt like an addon that was forgotten about (you needed to turn them on through some experimental flag IIRC?). I'll give it another shot some day, maybe it'll finally make sense. >Oh man, having a 25U rack sounds really fun. I have a moderate size cabinet I keep my server, desktop, a UPS, 10Gig switch, and my little fanless Home Assistant box. What's yours look like? * 2 UPSes (one for networking one for compute + storage) * a JBOD with about 400TB raw in ZFS RAID10 * a little intertech case with a supermicro board running TrueNAS (that connects to the JBOD) * 3 to 6 NUCs depending on the usage, all running Talos, rook-ceph cluster on the NVMEs, all NUCs have a Sonnet Solo 10G Thunderbolt NIC * 10 Gig unifi networking and a UDM Pro * misc other stuff like a zima blade, a pikvm, shelves, fans, ISP modem, etc I'm not necessarily thinking about downsizing but the NUCs have been acting up and I've gotten tired of replacing them or their drives so I thought I'd maybe build a new machine to rule them all in terms of compute and if I only want one host then k8s starts making less sense. Mini PCs are fine if you don't push them to the brim like I do. I'm a professional k8s engineer I guess, so on the software side most of this comes naturally at this point.
- bjoli 1y ago
  400 TB?! do you collect Linux ISOs or are you doing photography?
  - redrove 1y ago
    Linux ISOs and backups.
    - ethersteeds 1y ago
      (Backups of linux ISOs)
sgarland 1y ago
> Oh man, having a 25U rack sounds really fun. For certain definitions of the word “fun,” yes. I have a 35U (I don’t need that many slots, but at the time I did need it tall enough that my kids couldn’t reach the top, where I put the keys), with: * 3x Dell R620 * 2x Supermicro (one X9, one X11) * 1x APC UPS w/ external battery * Unifi UDM Pro * Unifi Enterprise 24-port switch The Dells have Samsung PM863 NVMe drives which are used by Ceph (managed by Proxmox), with traffic sent over an Infiniband mesh network via Mellanox ConnectX3-Pro. The Dells run K3OS in a VM, which is a dead project. Big mistake there. The Supermicros have various spinners, and are in a ZFS pool. One of them is technically a backup that should power up daily to ingest snapshots, then power off, but there’s been some issue preventing that, so… It was all very fun to set up, and has been eminently reliable, but it’s a bit much. While you can in fact make R620s relatively quiet, they’re still 1U, and those little 40mm fans are gonna whine. It’s background noise to me, but guests definitely mention it if we’re close to the rack. Also, I’m now in the uncomfortable position of being stuck on Proxmox 7, because v8 (or more accurately, the underlying Debian release) dropped support for my HBAs, so the NAS would be dead in the water. I mean, I could compile my own kernel, or perhaps leverage DKMS, but that somewhat defeats the purpose of having a nice AIO like Proxmox. Similarly, my choose of K3OS means at some point I need to spend the time to rip everything out and start over with Talos. Or - just maybe - I’ve done enough playing, and I should simply buy a JBOD chassis and a relatively new and quiet server (4U under light load means you can get away with much quieter fans), and just run stuff in Docker or gasp systemd. Or, hell, single-node K8s. My point is that it is fun, but eventually your day job becomes exhausting and you tire of troubleshooting all the various jank accumulating at home, and you stop caring about most of it.
- redrove 1y ago
  I turned my supermicro 847 X10DRI+ into a JBOD by ripping out the mobo, the fans, and building a 140mm fan wall (zip ties and later 3D printed). I can highly recommend the move, it's dead silent and I have drive temps between 33 and 45C with 20 to 25 drives (I honestly don't know the total at this point). As for your OS issues I also used to run Proxmox with Ceph (btw did you know you can use Proxmox's ceph with rook-ceph so you don't need 2 layers of storage?) including for the router and NAS, but I gave it up due to unwarranted complexity and went bare metal. Don't know what would fit your particular use case but I can say this: I'm very happy I made a separate box with a supermicro X11 and a JBOD besides it, I can recommend this too; what benefit is there really to virualizing a NAS? Regarding K3OS you're in luck - kubernetes manifests (you've got GitOps, right?!) are so portable you can just rebuild on a new OS. Give Talos Linux a spin. Again really think about why is it that you're virtualizing here too; maybe you genuinely need it, maybe not.

elevation 1y ago

Re: Nix, how do you run a service for which there is not a nix package? Or what if you need to build a service differently from how it's packaged for nix? For instance, you want a build of OpenLDAP with Argon2 or bcrypt support.

Aerbil313 1y ago
You write a nix package, modify other nix packages in nixpkgs, write overlays, and so on. Nix can package any software, build containers or OS images, the sky is not the limit. But first you have to invest (estimated) 2-3 weeks to learn it properly. Hell of a learning curve.

redrove 1y ago

>The language itself is unusual and the error messages leave much to be desired. And the split around Flakes just complicates things further Those are my chief complaints as well, actually. I never quite got to the point where I grasped how all the bits fit together. I understand the DSL (though the errors are cryptic as you said) and the flakes seemed recommended by everyone yet felt like an addon that was forgotten about (you needed to turn them on through some experimental flag IIRC?). I'll give it another shot some day, maybe it'll finally make sense. >Oh man, having a 25U rack sounds really fun. I have a moderate size cabinet I keep my server, desktop, a UPS, 10Gig switch, and my little fanless Home Assistant box. What's yours look like? * 2 UPSes (one for networking one for compute + storage) * a JBOD with about 400TB raw in ZFS RAID10 * a little intertech case with a supermicro board running TrueNAS (that connects to the JBOD) * 3 to 6 NUCs depending on the usage, all running Talos, rook-ceph cluster on the NVMEs, all NUCs have a Sonnet Solo 10G Thunderbolt NIC * 10 Gig unifi networking and a UDM Pro * misc other stuff like a zima blade, a pikvm, shelves, fans, ISP modem, etc I'm not necessarily thinking about downsizing but the NUCs have been acting up and I've gotten tired of replacing them or their drives so I thought I'd maybe build a new machine to rule them all in terms of compute and if I only want one host then k8s starts making less sense. Mini PCs are fine if you don't push them to the brim like I do. I'm a professional k8s engineer I guess, so on the software side most of this comes naturally at this point.

bjoli 1y ago
400 TB?! do you collect Linux ISOs or are you doing photography?
- redrove 1y ago
  Linux ISOs and backups.
  - ethersteeds 1y ago
    (Backups of linux ISOs)

sgarland 1y ago

> Oh man, having a 25U rack sounds really fun. For certain definitions of the word “fun,” yes. I have a 35U (I don’t need that many slots, but at the time I did need it tall enough that my kids couldn’t reach the top, where I put the keys), with: * 3x Dell R620 * 2x Supermicro (one X9, one X11) * 1x APC UPS w/ external battery * Unifi UDM Pro * Unifi Enterprise 24-port switch The Dells have Samsung PM863 NVMe drives which are used by Ceph (managed by Proxmox), with traffic sent over an Infiniband mesh network via Mellanox ConnectX3-Pro. The Dells run K3OS in a VM, which is a dead project. Big mistake there. The Supermicros have various spinners, and are in a ZFS pool. One of them is technically a backup that should power up daily to ingest snapshots, then power off, but there’s been some issue preventing that, so… It was all very fun to set up, and has been eminently reliable, but it’s a bit much. While you can in fact make R620s relatively quiet, they’re still 1U, and those little 40mm fans are gonna whine. It’s background noise to me, but guests definitely mention it if we’re close to the rack. Also, I’m now in the uncomfortable position of being stuck on Proxmox 7, because v8 (or more accurately, the underlying Debian release) dropped support for my HBAs, so the NAS would be dead in the water. I mean, I could compile my own kernel, or perhaps leverage DKMS, but that somewhat defeats the purpose of having a nice AIO like Proxmox. Similarly, my choose of K3OS means at some point I need to spend the time to rip everything out and start over with Talos. Or - just maybe - I’ve done enough playing, and I should simply buy a JBOD chassis and a relatively new and quiet server (4U under light load means you can get away with much quieter fans), and just run stuff in Docker or gasp systemd. Or, hell, single-node K8s. My point is that it is fun, but eventually your day job becomes exhausting and you tire of troubleshooting all the various jank accumulating at home, and you stop caring about most of it.

redrove 1y ago
I turned my supermicro 847 X10DRI+ into a JBOD by ripping out the mobo, the fans, and building a 140mm fan wall (zip ties and later 3D printed). I can highly recommend the move, it's dead silent and I have drive temps between 33 and 45C with 20 to 25 drives (I honestly don't know the total at this point). As for your OS issues I also used to run Proxmox with Ceph (btw did you know you can use Proxmox's ceph with rook-ceph so you don't need 2 layers of storage?) including for the router and NAS, but I gave it up due to unwarranted complexity and went bare metal. Don't know what would fit your particular use case but I can say this: I'm very happy I made a separate box with a supermicro X11 and a JBOD besides it, I can recommend this too; what benefit is there really to virualizing a NAS? Regarding K3OS you're in luck - kubernetes manifests (you've got GitOps, right?!) are so portable you can just rebuild on a new OS. Give Talos Linux a spin. Again really think about why is it that you're virtualizing here too; maybe you genuinely need it, maybe not.