5 ms·

This chart is entirely misleading. In any given year, there are only 85k new H1B visas. That's it, it has not grown nor shrunk. Reason for increase in populati

This chart is entirely misleading. In any given year, there are only 85k new H1B visas. That's it, it has not grown nor shrunk. Reason for increase in population shown here is H1B renewals. Normally the way this works is H1Bs convert to permanent residents, but due to the country caps, Indian/Chinese H1B holders keep renewing their visas contributing to this increase. Again these are people who are already here and got their approval sometime in the past, so its not like in 2022, companies collectively hired 685,117 (which is also why you see the decrease in 2023 since due to covid, a very little bit of backlog for residency cleared). (Not to mention the sentiment of comments here is entirely disappointing, but I guess that's the vibe these days)

ianferrel 1y ago
I don't think it's misleading. It's clearly a population chart, not a count of newly issued visas.
- xboxnolifes 1y ago
  It's misleading because it says "The H-1B program grew...", which to many implies that it was doing more immigration. It wasn't. There was less naturalization.
  - ianferrel 1y ago
    The chart says "H-1B Population Estimate". The chart is not at all misleading. The first line of the tweet might be misleading. Although I also disagree that it is, because it's accompanied by a well-labeled chart, so you don't have to infer a meaning; it's spelled out right there!
- dyauspitr 1y ago
  No it isn’t. It’s more like a rolling cumulative chart of all the prior years’ H1Bs combined.
  - ianferrel 1y ago
    ...less the people who no longer have an H1B visa. Just like a population chart is a rolling cumulative chart of prior years' births, less deaths.
- rs186 1y ago
  Only if there is another line of "new green card holder previously holding H1B visa" which is expected to show exactly the opposite trend. You still don't understand the problem here.
Aspos 1y ago
What about cap-exempt H1Bs? There are tons of new companies which streamlined the process and which are offering "nearly-guaranteed H1B with no lottery"
- jatins 1y ago
  How can _anyone_ bypass lottery when that's a USCIS process?
  - Aspos 1y ago
    I understand there are some exceptions made for academic institutions so these companies employ people into a "participating university" for a token number of hours per month, person comes in and once they are in the country they can pursue different opportunities to get employed and change their status. This cap-exempt H1B bypasses lottery, can be obtained in about 3 months any time during the year.
- atlgator 1y ago
  Yes - When Microsoft requests 14,000 H-1Bs after laying off 9,000 American workers, it's above and beyond the 85k cap.
  - intermerda 1y ago
    All the Microsoft layoffs were US citizens? Do you have a source for this?
    - darth_avocado 1y ago
      They were not because in a layoff you cannot prefer a specific protected category like race, gender, age AND nationality. The 9000 number is also a global number which includes layoffs in countries all over the world. The argument “9000 US workers were fired and X visa applications were applied for” is also very reductive. The layoffs were in gaming, sales and other divisions, meanwhile the visa applications were for people who either already are on visas in other divisions like engineering and are continuing their status or for people in newer positions that have nothing to do with sales or gaming.
darth_avocado 1y ago
I think every time the topic of H1B comes on HN, a lot of people have a lot of opinions, but don’t fully understand the immigration system. Like you correctly pointed out, the increase in H1Bs in the country is mostly contributed by the fact that country caps force some nationalities to permanently stay on H1B while others can naturalize faster. There are hundreds of thousands of people who come into the country every year through other visas (and also on H1B from other countries) and naturalize and take up jobs in the country. But that doesn’t matter because they are now US citizens. If people from India/China were allowed to naturalize as fast as other countries, you’d not have the chart of number of H1Bs grow in the country.
- luckydata 1y ago
  if people from India and China were allowed to naturalize as fast things would spiral out of control. I know it's not a popular thing to say on this forum, but H1B visas are absolutely a wage control mechanism for US corporations even if that's not the spirit of the law. Note that I'm also an immigrant.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    The H1B “problem” would disappear if companies were required to pay 50% more than the median salary for the position for one.
    - darth_avocado 1y ago
      The problem would disappear, but they would disappear to India or one of the other offshoring countries. I however agree that the pay needs to be AT LEAST the median salary for the position to avoid abuse.
      - nebula8804 1y ago
        Tax the American companies that focus their hiring efforts abroad. Just another tariff. They will generate the people they need in this country by lunch time.
BeetleB 1y ago
> In any given year, there are only 85k new H1B visas. Minor nitpick, but if you get an H-1 visa to work at a university, it's not part of that 85K limit. But yes, your point is valid. And the headline is editorialized - they cherry picked the year 2011, because it's the lowest. It was the lowest because we were knee deep in the financial crisis, and many companies suspended/reduced their reliance on foreign labor precisely because they'd have a hard time convincing the government that they couldn't find a qualified local.
one_of_a_kind 1y ago
[dead]

ianferrel 1y ago

I don't think it's misleading. It's clearly a population chart, not a count of newly issued visas.

xboxnolifes 1y ago
It's misleading because it says "The H-1B program grew...", which to many implies that it was doing more immigration. It wasn't. There was less naturalization.
- ianferrel 1y ago
  The chart says "H-1B Population Estimate". The chart is not at all misleading. The first line of the tweet might be misleading. Although I also disagree that it is, because it's accompanied by a well-labeled chart, so you don't have to infer a meaning; it's spelled out right there!
dyauspitr 1y ago
No it isn’t. It’s more like a rolling cumulative chart of all the prior years’ H1Bs combined.
- ianferrel 1y ago
  ...less the people who no longer have an H1B visa. Just like a population chart is a rolling cumulative chart of prior years' births, less deaths.
rs186 1y ago
Only if there is another line of "new green card holder previously holding H1B visa" which is expected to show exactly the opposite trend. You still don't understand the problem here.

Aspos 1y ago

What about cap-exempt H1Bs? There are tons of new companies which streamlined the process and which are offering "nearly-guaranteed H1B with no lottery"

jatins 1y ago
How can _anyone_ bypass lottery when that's a USCIS process?
- Aspos 1y ago
  I understand there are some exceptions made for academic institutions so these companies employ people into a "participating university" for a token number of hours per month, person comes in and once they are in the country they can pursue different opportunities to get employed and change their status. This cap-exempt H1B bypasses lottery, can be obtained in about 3 months any time during the year.
atlgator 1y ago
Yes - When Microsoft requests 14,000 H-1Bs after laying off 9,000 American workers, it's above and beyond the 85k cap.
- intermerda 1y ago
  All the Microsoft layoffs were US citizens? Do you have a source for this?
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    They were not because in a layoff you cannot prefer a specific protected category like race, gender, age AND nationality. The 9000 number is also a global number which includes layoffs in countries all over the world. The argument “9000 US workers were fired and X visa applications were applied for” is also very reductive. The layoffs were in gaming, sales and other divisions, meanwhile the visa applications were for people who either already are on visas in other divisions like engineering and are continuing their status or for people in newer positions that have nothing to do with sales or gaming.

darth_avocado 1y ago

I think every time the topic of H1B comes on HN, a lot of people have a lot of opinions, but don’t fully understand the immigration system. Like you correctly pointed out, the increase in H1Bs in the country is mostly contributed by the fact that country caps force some nationalities to permanently stay on H1B while others can naturalize faster. There are hundreds of thousands of people who come into the country every year through other visas (and also on H1B from other countries) and naturalize and take up jobs in the country. But that doesn’t matter because they are now US citizens. If people from India/China were allowed to naturalize as fast as other countries, you’d not have the chart of number of H1Bs grow in the country.

luckydata 1y ago
if people from India and China were allowed to naturalize as fast things would spiral out of control. I know it's not a popular thing to say on this forum, but H1B visas are absolutely a wage control mechanism for US corporations even if that's not the spirit of the law. Note that I'm also an immigrant.
- bombcar 1y ago
  The H1B “problem” would disappear if companies were required to pay 50% more than the median salary for the position for one.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    The problem would disappear, but they would disappear to India or one of the other offshoring countries. I however agree that the pay needs to be AT LEAST the median salary for the position to avoid abuse.
    - nebula8804 1y ago
      Tax the American companies that focus their hiring efforts abroad. Just another tariff. They will generate the people they need in this country by lunch time.

BeetleB 1y ago

> In any given year, there are only 85k new H1B visas. Minor nitpick, but if you get an H-1 visa to work at a university, it's not part of that 85K limit. But yes, your point is valid. And the headline is editorialized - they cherry picked the year 2011, because it's the lowest. It was the lowest because we were knee deep in the financial crisis, and many companies suspended/reduced their reliance on foreign labor precisely because they'd have a hard time convincing the government that they couldn't find a qualified local.

one_of_a_kind 1y ago

[dead]