6 ms·

I am always fascinated by this degree of assurance and absolute lack of scepticism. In what way, do you think, a show can have no room for critical viewing? Do

by omeid2 1y ago

I am always fascinated by this degree of assurance and absolute lack of scepticism. In what way, do you think, a show can have no room for critical viewing? Does being related to "reading or books" sufficient for such unquestionable and noncritical acceptance? Or was something else about it that makes it so cocksure good?

anniedethomasis 1y ago
[flagged]
- pessimizer 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - palmfacehn 1y ago
    "...when one assumes that all of the wealthiest people on the planet who share the least (and own the media, publishers, etc.) are all committed collectivist..." I will not engage with "woke right" or all of your points, much of which appears to be sarcasm. However, I will note that historically collectivist movements such as the early Progressives around the dawn of the 20th century, were championed by wealthy elites. Looking back it is easy to see how the centralization of authority in this era benefited the elite classes disproportionately. So, yes, I agree that much of the messaging for collectivist movements does focus on the perceived victim classes. However, that is only the surface level marketing. When examining the historical record, critics generally cite the outcomes rather than the slogans. Hope this helps to add perspective to this contentious issue.
gonzobonzo 1y ago
Watching Mr. Rogers as an adult, I was surprised by how opinionated the show could be. There was an episode where one of the puppets was trying to teach a child puppet to read before they entered school, and it was presented as a extremely harsh and mean way to treat a child. A human actor comes in and starts scolding the puppet that it's not necessary to teach the kids to read before school and that she needs to stop. Later, Mr. Rogers talks with an actual kindergarten teacher, and they discuss how it's completely unnecessary to teach kids to read before they enter kindergarten. It felt like it was indoctrinating kids into believing that the right way to raise them was the way that Fred Rogers preferred. There's this strange point of view that once it's decided that something is good and it's being made by good people, it's absurd to look at it critically and anyone who does should be mocked.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  That is a Waldorf perspective, though presumably not exclusive to them. I was sent to a Waldorf kindergarten, and my mother despised it because they repeatedly insulted her for having taught me to read. They felt this was unhealthy. Independent of Waldorf, kindergarten teachers - like most teachers - don't like it when their students already know the material they're supposed to be teaching.
  - gonzobonzo 1y ago
    > Independent of Waldorf, kindergarten teachers - like most teachers - don't like it when their students already know the material they're supposed to be teaching. Yes, "don't do it that way, you're not suppose to know that yet" is depressingly common. Also unfair, since it usually only applies to certain kids - we don't tell artistic kids that they shouldn't paint so well, because kids aren't supposed to be at that level yet, nor do we tell athletic kids this. But it's extremely common in subjects like math. One of the things that's frustrating is the one size fits all mentality when it comes to education. Even if some kids don't get a lot out of home education, some really enjoy it, and it can be a great bonding experience for many parents and children. It feels irresponsible to dismiss it all together.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      > we don't tell artistic kids that they shouldn't paint so well, because kids aren't supposed to be at that level yet, nor do we tell athletic kids this. But it's extremely common in subjects like math. It's even more common as applied to holding a job, which is out-and-out illegal for children in most cases.
- esseph 1y ago
  You're talking about, I believe, Episode 1463 - Mr Rogers goes to school. I found it in the internet archive here: https://archive.org/details/ipoy143season10 https://archive.org/details/ipoy143season10 Edit: The correct episode in question is Ep 1462.
esseph 1y ago
> absolute lack of scepticism. Mostly being around 4-6 years old and generally having trust in the people around you.

by omeid2 1y ago

anniedethomasis 1y ago

[flagged]

pessimizer 1y ago
[flagged]
- palmfacehn 1y ago
  "...when one assumes that all of the wealthiest people on the planet who share the least (and own the media, publishers, etc.) are all committed collectivist..." I will not engage with "woke right" or all of your points, much of which appears to be sarcasm. However, I will note that historically collectivist movements such as the early Progressives around the dawn of the 20th century, were championed by wealthy elites. Looking back it is easy to see how the centralization of authority in this era benefited the elite classes disproportionately. So, yes, I agree that much of the messaging for collectivist movements does focus on the perceived victim classes. However, that is only the surface level marketing. When examining the historical record, critics generally cite the outcomes rather than the slogans. Hope this helps to add perspective to this contentious issue.

gonzobonzo 1y ago

Watching Mr. Rogers as an adult, I was surprised by how opinionated the show could be. There was an episode where one of the puppets was trying to teach a child puppet to read before they entered school, and it was presented as a extremely harsh and mean way to treat a child. A human actor comes in and starts scolding the puppet that it's not necessary to teach the kids to read before school and that she needs to stop. Later, Mr. Rogers talks with an actual kindergarten teacher, and they discuss how it's completely unnecessary to teach kids to read before they enter kindergarten. It felt like it was indoctrinating kids into believing that the right way to raise them was the way that Fred Rogers preferred. There's this strange point of view that once it's decided that something is good and it's being made by good people, it's absurd to look at it critically and anyone who does should be mocked.

thaumasiotes 1y ago
That is a Waldorf perspective, though presumably not exclusive to them. I was sent to a Waldorf kindergarten, and my mother despised it because they repeatedly insulted her for having taught me to read. They felt this was unhealthy. Independent of Waldorf, kindergarten teachers - like most teachers - don't like it when their students already know the material they're supposed to be teaching.
- gonzobonzo 1y ago
  > Independent of Waldorf, kindergarten teachers - like most teachers - don't like it when their students already know the material they're supposed to be teaching. Yes, "don't do it that way, you're not suppose to know that yet" is depressingly common. Also unfair, since it usually only applies to certain kids - we don't tell artistic kids that they shouldn't paint so well, because kids aren't supposed to be at that level yet, nor do we tell athletic kids this. But it's extremely common in subjects like math. One of the things that's frustrating is the one size fits all mentality when it comes to education. Even if some kids don't get a lot out of home education, some really enjoy it, and it can be a great bonding experience for many parents and children. It feels irresponsible to dismiss it all together.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    > we don't tell artistic kids that they shouldn't paint so well, because kids aren't supposed to be at that level yet, nor do we tell athletic kids this. But it's extremely common in subjects like math. It's even more common as applied to holding a job, which is out-and-out illegal for children in most cases.
esseph 1y ago
You're talking about, I believe, Episode 1463 - Mr Rogers goes to school. I found it in the internet archive here: https://archive.org/details/ipoy143season10 https://archive.org/details/ipoy143season10 Edit: The correct episode in question is Ep 1462.

esseph 1y ago

> absolute lack of scepticism. Mostly being around 4-6 years old and generally having trust in the people around you.