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Also, be angry at those who didn't follow through with promises to severely reduce funding to their police departments in 2020. If an organization consistently

by panic 1y ago

Also, be angry at those who didn't follow through with promises to severely reduce funding to their police departments in 2020. If an organization consistently behaves in a way we don't like, we should seek alternatives to that organization, not continuously act surprised when they act out and keep giving them more money.

davrosthedalek 1y ago
If you defund police, what do you think will be cut first? The control organs and oversight, or the thing they should oversee?
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > If you defund police, what do you think will be cut first? That's why you don't just go to the cops and say "find $1B in your budget to cut". You give specifics.
- Ar-Curunir 1y ago
  So you are saying that the police force is a extra-governmental organization that has full control over how they allocate funds? All the more reason to reduce their funding!
  - Geezus_42 1y ago
    Sounds like theft, fraud, and abuse to me! Where's the DOGE team digging into police and military budgets?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> be angry at those who didn't follow through with promises to severely reduce funding to their police departments in 2020 This was tried. It generated a generational backlash against the left as petty crime and visible homelessness rose. To the extent police reform has historically worked, it’s been by rebooting a police department. (Think: replacing the Mets with the NYPD.) Not replacing police with a hippie circle.
- panic 1y ago
  Where was it tried? My understanding is that even Minneapolis didn't follow through with it.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Where was it tried? Chesa Boudin. New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. That fuck in Chicago. Defund the police was a marquee policy and messaging failure that underlined why radical minorities capturing the Democratic Party cause it to lose elections.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. What does that have to do with "defund the police"? Bail money doesn't go into their pockets.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        It was part of the police reform initiative. I supported it. But it massively increased the street population of recidivist bastards in a way I didn’t expect.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous In New York they were one and the same. The latter simply representing the most extreme expression of the former. I remember dropping into a leftist conference in Philadelphia years ago where several folks who would become the face of post-Covid police reform were there, including Boudin. At the end of the day they all conceded that their goal was abolishing this, that and the other thing.
mlinhares 1y ago
These people were mostly defeated in elections and the ones promising to shovel even more money got elected, just look at Eric Adams in NYC. I seriously hope what is happening right now finally radicalizes the rest of the population that law enforcement as it is right now does not work for the public interest.
- Geezus_42 1y ago
  They aren't even required to protect you according to the supreme court. The only point of cops is to protect private property, not people, and to harass people that conservatives don't like.
- jahewson 1y ago
  I guess this depends on how one defines the public interest. Shielding data from federal authorities surely has both upsides and downsides.
dimitrios1 1y ago
"Defund the police" was and remains wildly unpopular with almost everyone, especially minorities (as a reminder to any of those out touch reading this: there are large racial disparities in who is affected by crime, particularly violent crime) . It was quintessential "progressives are out of touch" ammunition, not only used by republicans (obviously), but also establishment democrats in competitive districts. As another commenter posted, its about not allowing the creation of the data set in the first place. We really need everyone in this country to go read "Nothing to Hide" by Daniel Solove, because thats how this crazy shit gets through in the first place: innocuous citizens go "Sure, I got nothing to hide"
LazyMans 1y ago
To be fair, systems like Flocksafety really help departments being squeezed for funding. It's one of the ways the system is sold. It's an effective tool.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  I worked for Flock. I was sold during the recruiting process on high ethics and morals and an idealistic vision. The reality was a surveillance state, and questionable policies on data sharing between agencies, and private installations (HOA, etc.), and a CEO with a weirdly literal belief on how Flock should "eliminate all crime". Not "visionary", but far more literal. Way too Minority Report for my liking. They have a public "disclosure" site that supposedly shows the agencies using Flock that is absolutely inaccurate (there are three agencies in my County alone using it that are not listed there).

by panic 1y ago

davrosthedalek 1y ago

If you defund police, what do you think will be cut first? The control organs and oversight, or the thing they should oversee?

ceejayoz 1y ago
> If you defund police, what do you think will be cut first? That's why you don't just go to the cops and say "find $1B in your budget to cut". You give specifics.
Ar-Curunir 1y ago
So you are saying that the police force is a extra-governmental organization that has full control over how they allocate funds? All the more reason to reduce their funding!
- Geezus_42 1y ago
  Sounds like theft, fraud, and abuse to me! Where's the DOGE team digging into police and military budgets?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> be angry at those who didn't follow through with promises to severely reduce funding to their police departments in 2020 This was tried. It generated a generational backlash against the left as petty crime and visible homelessness rose. To the extent police reform has historically worked, it’s been by rebooting a police department. (Think: replacing the Mets with the NYPD.) Not replacing police with a hippie circle.

panic 1y ago
Where was it tried? My understanding is that even Minneapolis didn't follow through with it.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Where was it tried? Chesa Boudin. New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. That fuck in Chicago. Defund the police was a marquee policy and messaging failure that underlined why radical minorities capturing the Democratic Party cause it to lose elections.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > New York with cashless bail and non-prosecution of petty crimes. What does that have to do with "defund the police"? Bail money doesn't go into their pockets.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      It was part of the police reform initiative. I supported it. But it massively increased the street population of recidivist bastards in a way I didn’t expect.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Conflating "police reform" and "defund the police" is disingenuous In New York they were one and the same. The latter simply representing the most extreme expression of the former. I remember dropping into a leftist conference in Philadelphia years ago where several folks who would become the face of post-Covid police reform were there, including Boudin. At the end of the day they all conceded that their goal was abolishing this, that and the other thing.

mlinhares 1y ago

These people were mostly defeated in elections and the ones promising to shovel even more money got elected, just look at Eric Adams in NYC. I seriously hope what is happening right now finally radicalizes the rest of the population that law enforcement as it is right now does not work for the public interest.

Geezus_42 1y ago
They aren't even required to protect you according to the supreme court. The only point of cops is to protect private property, not people, and to harass people that conservatives don't like.
jahewson 1y ago
I guess this depends on how one defines the public interest. Shielding data from federal authorities surely has both upsides and downsides.

dimitrios1 1y ago

"Defund the police" was and remains wildly unpopular with almost everyone, especially minorities (as a reminder to any of those out touch reading this: there are large racial disparities in who is affected by crime, particularly violent crime) . It was quintessential "progressives are out of touch" ammunition, not only used by republicans (obviously), but also establishment democrats in competitive districts. As another commenter posted, its about not allowing the creation of the data set in the first place. We really need everyone in this country to go read "Nothing to Hide" by Daniel Solove, because thats how this crazy shit gets through in the first place: innocuous citizens go "Sure, I got nothing to hide"

LazyMans 1y ago

To be fair, systems like Flocksafety really help departments being squeezed for funding. It's one of the ways the system is sold. It's an effective tool.

FireBeyond 1y ago
I worked for Flock. I was sold during the recruiting process on high ethics and morals and an idealistic vision. The reality was a surveillance state, and questionable policies on data sharing between agencies, and private installations (HOA, etc.), and a CEO with a weirdly literal belief on how Flock should "eliminate all crime". Not "visionary", but far more literal. Way too Minority Report for my liking. They have a public "disclosure" site that supposedly shows the agencies using Flock that is absolutely inaccurate (there are three agencies in my County alone using it that are not listed there).