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I grew up in India and now live in the US. My mom recently got some ground turmeric from our own farm when she visited us. I am was stunned by how much more dul

I grew up in India and now live in the US. My mom recently got some ground turmeric from our own farm when she visited us. I am was stunned by how much more duller, brownish-yellow it was compared to the turmeric I buy in Indian stores in the US. Those are usually really bright yellows. Now, I am really scared that even stuff sold in California is probably lead paint tainted turmeric.

genewitch 1y ago
article says "you can't tell when it's ground" - that is, specifically, they put lead chromate in the "buff" stage, so the roots look like they were dried properly. In the same way that a lot of apples and the like will be buffed and then a soft wax coat applied so lots of apples are very shiny at the store. if the turmeric is ground before sale i doubt there's any reason to use lead chromate.
- ashwinsundar 1y ago
  No I think the opposite conclusion is correct - turmeric starts out whole, and can be either ground down at that point or dried and sold whole. In the whole state, it's much easier to detect that lead chromate was applied. If the turmeric is ground before sale, it's even easier to apply lead chromate and make the whole version "appear" healthier to the next processor who grinds it down and then sells the powder. If you buy it whole, then you can more easily see the color of the original root.
  - genewitch 1y ago
    Then why isn't this an issue in Bharat, as mentioned in the article?
    - ashwinsundar 1y ago
      I don't know why you're obsessed with whether India has the same problem. Maybe it hasn't been studied as extensively, or the turmeric there is healthier and hence doesn't need to be colored, or something else. Also the article doesn't say that India doesn't have this problem.
      - genewitch 1y ago
        Oh i missed "Dhaka" in the sentence after the one that said lead was found in spices in india, my brain saw "[...] spices in india, [...] despite lead free turmeric" sorry, that's my mistake.
    - yread 1y ago
      Of course it is an issue. The government has a page to detect adulteration https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/
- toast0 1y ago
  > if the turmeric is ground before sale i doubt there's any reason to use lead chromate. If the roots are wholesaled to the grinder, and the grinder doesn't know that bright means poisoned, they might prefer brighter looking roots. The ground tumeric will be poisoned. Similarly, if the roots are poisoned and discriminating buyers aren't buying then because they're too bright, you can still grind it and sell it, and the color will blend.
zargon 1y ago
Burlap and Barrel tests their turmeric for lead and publishes the results. It’s a lot more expensive than Indian store turmeric, but personally I’m no longer willing to buy untested turmeric. (Relatedly, Lundberg publishes the arsenic levels of their brown rice, so that’s basically the only brand of rice I buy any more.)
- markhahn 1y ago
  isn't arsenic in rice trivial to deal with ("pasta" method)?
  - zargon 1y ago
    I wouldn’t call it trivial, no. Pre-boiling it only removes about 50% of the arsenic. If you start with US rice from arsenic-poisoned soils, after boiling the rice you can still have more arsenic in it than rice that had lower levels to start with (even when cooked traditionally).
    - fpoling 1y ago
      One needs both to soak rice for at least 8 hours and boil it in excessive water to remove arsenic.
- droopyEyelids 1y ago
  Don’t know what part of the country you’re in, but in Chicago even the basic chain grocery stores carry fresh unprocessed turmeric now. There’s basically no reason to ever use powdered or dried.
  - giraffe_lady 1y ago
    Except that it's a different ingredient, that tastes different and works differently. I still use cayenne for some things even though I have fresh chile peppers I don't put fresh ginger in ginger snaps etc.
- littlexsparkee 1y ago
OJFord 1y ago
I don't think you need to worry buying it from a store that's imported it properly - the article says it was found in the US in Bangladeshi communities where it had been brought back to the US in their suitcases. The difference could be due to sun-drying (I assume?) on your family's farm vs. industrial scale freeze/spray drying, for example. Or some (non-lead, non-colouring) additive that prevents it oxidising and dulling over time perhaps. I think argon is often used (rather than air) in packaging for that purpose.
- zargon 1y ago
  If a company doesn’t explicitly state their supply chain controls in situations like this, I’m going to assume they’re possibly inadequate. This is the Amazon era, where things like knowing where what you’re selling came from is considered too much effort.
- perihelions 1y ago
  No, it's definitely in the US supermarket supply chain (though it's not nearly as bad as in SEA), https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herbs-and-spices-might-contain-arsenic-cadmium-and-lead-a6246621494/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herb... ("[Consumer Reports] tested 126 products from McCormick, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and other popular brands. Almost a third had heavy metal levels high enough to raise health concerns") You may (or not) be surprised that there's actually no general testing for heavy metals in US foods, even in categories seriously affected by them—neither by the FDA, nor the private sector. > "Currently, about two dozen spice companies from 11 countries are subject to import alerts for lead contamination, which signal to regulators that they can detain those products. But that represents a fraction of the herbs and spices shipped to the U.S. In addition, the limited testing the FDA has done on spices has been focused on harmful bacteria, such as salmonella, not heavy metals, Ronholm says." > "The lack of regulation leaves much of the monitoring of heavy metal levels to companies. [Consumer Reports] contacted all the ones with products in our tests to see how they limited heavy metals." > "Of the companies that replied to our questions—Al Wadi Al Akhdar, Costco, Bolner’s Fiesta, Gebhardt, Litehouse, McCormick, Roland Foods, Spice Islands, Target, and Whole Foods—a few said they require their suppliers to have a program for controlling or testing for heavy metals. But only three—Al Wadi Al Akhdar, Bolner’s Fiesta, and McCormick—specifically said they test products in their manufacturing plants for heavy metals."
oharapj 1y ago
Can someone validate the water test for lead adulterated turmeric? https://youtu.be/tXWPf0HQd5U?si=-SkT4EQB9SvMx7io https://youtu.be/tXWPf0HQd5U?si=-SkT4EQB9SvMx7io
- GloriousKoji 1y ago
  I don't follow youtube links during work hours as a personal policy but an India government webpage outlines the water test for whole tumeric: https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ > Test 14 : Detection of lead chromate in turmeric whole > Testing Method: > * Add small quantity of turmeric whole in a transparent glass of water. > * Pure turmeric will not leave any colour. > * Adulterated turmeric appears to be bright in colour and leaves colour immediately in water.
  - Aloisius 1y ago
    That's for whole turmeric.
  - mook 1y ago
    Test 15 is the test for powdered tumeric. Of course, their photographs also look photoshopped (the pure and adulterated photos have the exact same pattern near the bottom), which was rather confusing…
    - account42 1y ago
      Even without that it's hard to make a judgement of the results without having something to compare it with.
  - oharapj 1y ago
    The Youtube video was also made by the Indian Government. Validating the Indian Government's claim against the Indian Government's same claim (Test 15 in this case) probably doesn't tell us much
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
  [flagged]
williamscales 1y ago
I'm curious about getting a personal XRF device for this reason. They don't look "that" expensive, I found some for $5k to $10k on Alibaba. Is it overkill? Probably yes. Am I overly paranoid about my health and would also like to generally have an XRF device? Also yes.
- account42 1y ago
  What radiation source do they use? Could it potentially be a bigger hazard than the spices if you don't handle it properly?

genewitch 1y ago

article says "you can't tell when it's ground" - that is, specifically, they put lead chromate in the "buff" stage, so the roots look like they were dried properly. In the same way that a lot of apples and the like will be buffed and then a soft wax coat applied so lots of apples are very shiny at the store. if the turmeric is ground before sale i doubt there's any reason to use lead chromate.

ashwinsundar 1y ago
No I think the opposite conclusion is correct - turmeric starts out whole, and can be either ground down at that point or dried and sold whole. In the whole state, it's much easier to detect that lead chromate was applied. If the turmeric is ground before sale, it's even easier to apply lead chromate and make the whole version "appear" healthier to the next processor who grinds it down and then sells the powder. If you buy it whole, then you can more easily see the color of the original root.
- genewitch 1y ago
  Then why isn't this an issue in Bharat, as mentioned in the article?
  - ashwinsundar 1y ago
    I don't know why you're obsessed with whether India has the same problem. Maybe it hasn't been studied as extensively, or the turmeric there is healthier and hence doesn't need to be colored, or something else. Also the article doesn't say that India doesn't have this problem.
    - genewitch 1y ago
      Oh i missed "Dhaka" in the sentence after the one that said lead was found in spices in india, my brain saw "[...] spices in india, [...] despite lead free turmeric" sorry, that's my mistake.
  - yread 1y ago
    Of course it is an issue. The government has a page to detect adulteration https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/
toast0 1y ago
> if the turmeric is ground before sale i doubt there's any reason to use lead chromate. If the roots are wholesaled to the grinder, and the grinder doesn't know that bright means poisoned, they might prefer brighter looking roots. The ground tumeric will be poisoned. Similarly, if the roots are poisoned and discriminating buyers aren't buying then because they're too bright, you can still grind it and sell it, and the color will blend.

zargon 1y ago

Burlap and Barrel tests their turmeric for lead and publishes the results. It’s a lot more expensive than Indian store turmeric, but personally I’m no longer willing to buy untested turmeric. (Relatedly, Lundberg publishes the arsenic levels of their brown rice, so that’s basically the only brand of rice I buy any more.)

markhahn 1y ago
isn't arsenic in rice trivial to deal with ("pasta" method)?
- zargon 1y ago
  I wouldn’t call it trivial, no. Pre-boiling it only removes about 50% of the arsenic. If you start with US rice from arsenic-poisoned soils, after boiling the rice you can still have more arsenic in it than rice that had lower levels to start with (even when cooked traditionally).
  - fpoling 1y ago
    One needs both to soak rice for at least 8 hours and boil it in excessive water to remove arsenic.
droopyEyelids 1y ago
Don’t know what part of the country you’re in, but in Chicago even the basic chain grocery stores carry fresh unprocessed turmeric now. There’s basically no reason to ever use powdered or dried.
- giraffe_lady 1y ago
  Except that it's a different ingredient, that tastes different and works differently. I still use cayenne for some things even though I have fresh chile peppers I don't put fresh ginger in ginger snaps etc.
littlexsparkee 1y ago

OJFord 1y ago

I don't think you need to worry buying it from a store that's imported it properly - the article says it was found in the US in Bangladeshi communities where it had been brought back to the US in their suitcases. The difference could be due to sun-drying (I assume?) on your family's farm vs. industrial scale freeze/spray drying, for example. Or some (non-lead, non-colouring) additive that prevents it oxidising and dulling over time perhaps. I think argon is often used (rather than air) in packaging for that purpose.

zargon 1y ago
If a company doesn’t explicitly state their supply chain controls in situations like this, I’m going to assume they’re possibly inadequate. This is the Amazon era, where things like knowing where what you’re selling came from is considered too much effort.
perihelions 1y ago
No, it's definitely in the US supermarket supply chain (though it's not nearly as bad as in SEA), https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herbs-and-spices-might-contain-arsenic-cadmium-and-lead-a6246621494/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herb... ("[Consumer Reports] tested 126 products from McCormick, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and other popular brands. Almost a third had heavy metal levels high enough to raise health concerns") You may (or not) be surprised that there's actually no general testing for heavy metals in US foods, even in categories seriously affected by them—neither by the FDA, nor the private sector. > "Currently, about two dozen spice companies from 11 countries are subject to import alerts for lead contamination, which signal to regulators that they can detain those products. But that represents a fraction of the herbs and spices shipped to the U.S. In addition, the limited testing the FDA has done on spices has been focused on harmful bacteria, such as salmonella, not heavy metals, Ronholm says." > "The lack of regulation leaves much of the monitoring of heavy metal levels to companies. [Consumer Reports] contacted all the ones with products in our tests to see how they limited heavy metals." > "Of the companies that replied to our questions—Al Wadi Al Akhdar, Costco, Bolner’s Fiesta, Gebhardt, Litehouse, McCormick, Roland Foods, Spice Islands, Target, and Whole Foods—a few said they require their suppliers to have a program for controlling or testing for heavy metals. But only three—Al Wadi Al Akhdar, Bolner’s Fiesta, and McCormick—specifically said they test products in their manufacturing plants for heavy metals."

oharapj 1y ago

Can someone validate the water test for lead adulterated turmeric? https://youtu.be/tXWPf0HQd5U?si=-SkT4EQB9SvMx7io https://youtu.be/tXWPf0HQd5U?si=-SkT4EQB9SvMx7io

GloriousKoji 1y ago
I don't follow youtube links during work hours as a personal policy but an India government webpage outlines the water test for whole tumeric: https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ https://eatrightindia.gov.in/dart/ > Test 14 : Detection of lead chromate in turmeric whole > Testing Method: > * Add small quantity of turmeric whole in a transparent glass of water. > * Pure turmeric will not leave any colour. > * Adulterated turmeric appears to be bright in colour and leaves colour immediately in water.
- Aloisius 1y ago
  That's for whole turmeric.
- mook 1y ago
  Test 15 is the test for powdered tumeric. Of course, their photographs also look photoshopped (the pure and adulterated photos have the exact same pattern near the bottom), which was rather confusing…
  - account42 1y ago
    Even without that it's hard to make a judgement of the results without having something to compare it with.
- oharapj 1y ago
  The Youtube video was also made by the Indian Government. Validating the Indian Government's claim against the Indian Government's same claim (Test 15 in this case) probably doesn't tell us much
onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
[flagged]

williamscales 1y ago

I'm curious about getting a personal XRF device for this reason. They don't look "that" expensive, I found some for $5k to $10k on Alibaba. Is it overkill? Probably yes. Am I overly paranoid about my health and would also like to generally have an XRF device? Also yes.

account42 1y ago
What radiation source do they use? Could it potentially be a bigger hazard than the spices if you don't handle it properly?