5 ms·

In Germany, calling someone by a crime they have been sentenced of, constitutes defamation.

• arrowsmith 1y ago
  What? That makes no sense whatsoever.
  • akudha 1y ago
    Why does it not make sense? If I was involved in a robbery at age 18, as a dumb kid, should I still be called "robber xyz" for the rest of my life? Especially if I turned my life around?
    • arrowsmith 1y ago
      I agree that we should be forgiving, give people second chances etc, but that doesn't change the meaning of words. "Defamation" is when you damage someone's reputation by saying things about them that aren't true. If you were convicted of a crime long ago and someone draws attention to that fact, they're not defaming you. The truth isn't defamation, by definition.
      • mkehrt 1y ago
        > The truth isn't defamation, by definition. This is a famously American position.
        • arrowsmith 1y ago
          I'm not American, and we're discussing a UK news story. But I genuinely didn't know that other countries do things differently. What does defamation even mean if it doesn't include the concept of untruth?
          • arh68 1y ago
            Previously, [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40682485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40682485 (obviously, it means different things to different folks; I can't properly answer your question) FWIW I'm only really familiar with the American usual.
      • jolmg 1y ago
        > but that doesn't change the meaning of words. Words can have multiple similar definitions with small variations. If I look up "defamation" I get: > Defamation is a legal term that refers to any statement made by a person, whether verbal or printed, that causes harm to another person’s reputation or character. --- https://legaldictionary.net/defamation/ https://legaldictionary.net/defamation/ > Defamation is a communication that injures a third party's reputation and causes a legally redressable injury. The precise legal definition of defamation varies from country to country. It is not necessarily restricted to making assertions that are falsifiable, and can extend to concepts that are more abstract than reputation – like dignity and honour. --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
        • arrowsmith 1y ago
          I stand corrected.
          • amiga386 1y ago
            Truth (in English law) is merely a defence to an accusation of libel or slander, and it is not an absolute defence. If you say or print true things about a person, that lowers their reputation in the eyes of an ordinary person, and you are motivated by malice, then you have still committed the crime of defamation. English libel law is an evolution of the former English law known as scandalum magnatum -- "scandalizing the mighty". Basically, if you say bad things about powerful people, those powerful people will crush you with the law. As an example, Robert Maxwell embezzled millions from his company's pension fund, and also used that money to sue anyone who slighted him - including anyone who said he was embezzling from his company's pension fund. He was never prosecuted for embezzling millions from his company's pension fund.
            • worik 1y ago
              > He was never prosecuted for embezzling millions from his company's pension fund. He escaped that. By dying. Probably suicide. The walls were closing in
      • burkaman 1y ago
        Calling someone a robber means they are currently a robber. It can be inaccurate and untrue in the same way that calling someone a bartender would be inaccurate and untrue if they are a lawyer who hasn't tended a bar in 20 years. I don't like the idea of prosecuting people for this, but I don't think it's illogical.
        • veeti 1y ago
          Would you extend the same courtesy to a murderer or child rapist?
          • burkaman 1y ago
            Honestly I don't know, I think it would depend on how long ago the crime was and if there's a credible reason to believe they won't do it again. I do think there's a meaningful difference between "they murdered someone" and "they're a murderer", and in general I do prefer to describe people's actions as opposed to using "they're a ___" labels.
          • nothrabannosir 1y ago
            Just in case this is a leading question: there are many courtesies we extend some but not all people convicted of a crime. Bail, parole, etc.
          • nilamo 1y ago
            Why is such a person wandering around free if they were convicted? Do you think prison sentences are not harsh enough?
      • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
        > The truth isn't defamation, by definition. Perhaps you mean slander/libel?
        • arrowsmith 1y ago
          Slander and libel are subcategories of defamation. Libel = defamation in writing. Slander = defamation in speech.