6 ms·

This is a fair point. Journalists are just using available public information. 37Signals' numbers are not public. "Talk is cheap" as they say. I don't disag

This is a fair point. Journalists are just using available public information. 37Signals' numbers are not public. "Talk is cheap" as they say. I don't disagree with what he is saying in the quotes - that people focus too much on raising money as "business success". This is without question. But then again I still do not understand the value of 37Signals (compared to any other software company with aggressive marketing), at least not from the press they get. How are they being any more transparent? All I know from recent reports is employees supposedly work 4 days a week and they have some sort of brainstorming sessions to come up with new ideas. What does the 37Signals software do? Specifically, not just some marketing buzzword. What does it do that I can't otherwise do without it? Are there some YouTube videos showing the software in action? How do I know it's not just a Ruby on Rails consulting business for a few steady clients (who have an inseparable attachment to Rails), as opposed to a "unique" software company with amazing products? How do I know they're not just selling a Rails framework? So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"?

jschulenklopper 14y ago
> What does the 37Signals software do? I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com http://37signals.com before posting this? > So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"? No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.
- nameuserc 14y ago
  Forget what I say. It's just me. "5,000 companies sign up every week." But "keep all project discussions, emails, and stuff in one place" just doesn't draw me in. I don't have a problem with "keeping all project stuff in one place". 37Signals appears to be aimed at solving a "problem" I do not have. I have looked at their website several times. It just never grabs me. And I'm not inclined to give them my email address to try out their amazing "solution".
  - sleepyhead 14y ago
    So they sell something you don't need. Why do you have a problem with that?
    - nameuserc 14y ago
      Assuming what you say were true (i.e., that I "have a problem" with 37Signals), do you "have a problem" with me "having a problem" with that? Do you also sell something people do not need? And does it make you uncomfortable when people who do not need it mentions that to an audience via HN, the same way 37Signals keeps working to make mention of itself, or have others do so, in publications with large audiences. If I have no need for a service someone is selling and I never hear about that service, then I have no reason (maybe even no ability) to to state what I think about that service. But if in the course of reading the "news" I am continually reminded of the service's existence, I may be inclined to comment. That is the risk you take with PR and advertising, or internet-based hype in general. So it seems that 37Signals sells the use of their forum software (constructed from Ruby on Rails, i.e., free software), hosted on 37Signals' computers. I am getting a clearer picture now.
      - dkrich 14y ago
        What you are saying is akin to somebody from the revolutionary war going forward in time to the age of the cell phone and saying "People are talking through these boxes but I communicate just fine with the people in my house. I don't need these boxes. It's okay if you do." I'm not by any means suggesting that you're stupid or out of your league, but simply that you are talking about something that you are clearly completely unfamiliar with. Have you ever managed a team of people and projects? Once you do you will understand what an incredible pain in the ass it is to rely on email and spreadsheets. Full disclosure- I am NOT a 37Signals customer, nor do I know anybody affiliated with the company. Simply that project management software is a very real need for a very large number of teams. One of their partners created Ruby on Rails to create Basecamp, then released the framework for anybody to use and remained as a core contributor.
        14y ago

jschulenklopper 14y ago

> What does the 37Signals software do? I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com http://37signals.com before posting this? > So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"? No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.

nameuserc 14y ago
Forget what I say. It's just me. "5,000 companies sign up every week." But "keep all project discussions, emails, and stuff in one place" just doesn't draw me in. I don't have a problem with "keeping all project stuff in one place". 37Signals appears to be aimed at solving a "problem" I do not have. I have looked at their website several times. It just never grabs me. And I'm not inclined to give them my email address to try out their amazing "solution".
- sleepyhead 14y ago
  So they sell something you don't need. Why do you have a problem with that?
  - nameuserc 14y ago
    Assuming what you say were true (i.e., that I "have a problem" with 37Signals), do you "have a problem" with me "having a problem" with that? Do you also sell something people do not need? And does it make you uncomfortable when people who do not need it mentions that to an audience via HN, the same way 37Signals keeps working to make mention of itself, or have others do so, in publications with large audiences. If I have no need for a service someone is selling and I never hear about that service, then I have no reason (maybe even no ability) to to state what I think about that service. But if in the course of reading the "news" I am continually reminded of the service's existence, I may be inclined to comment. That is the risk you take with PR and advertising, or internet-based hype in general. So it seems that 37Signals sells the use of their forum software (constructed from Ruby on Rails, i.e., free software), hosted on 37Signals' computers. I am getting a clearer picture now.
    - dkrich 14y ago
      What you are saying is akin to somebody from the revolutionary war going forward in time to the age of the cell phone and saying "People are talking through these boxes but I communicate just fine with the people in my house. I don't need these boxes. It's okay if you do." I'm not by any means suggesting that you're stupid or out of your league, but simply that you are talking about something that you are clearly completely unfamiliar with. Have you ever managed a team of people and projects? Once you do you will understand what an incredible pain in the ass it is to rely on email and spreadsheets. Full disclosure- I am NOT a 37Signals customer, nor do I know anybody affiliated with the company. Simply that project management software is a very real need for a very large number of teams. One of their partners created Ruby on Rails to create Basecamp, then released the framework for anybody to use and remained as a core contributor.
      - 14y ago