7 ms·

And then eventually, water seeps in. Like in the german Asse II mine, that is planned to be evacuated, which will be a major challenge. https://www.bge.de/en/a

by 74B5 1y ago

And then eventually, water seeps in. Like in the german Asse II mine, that is planned to be evacuated, which will be a major challenge. https://www.bge.de/en/asse/short-information/history-of-the-asse-ii-mine/ https://www.bge.de/en/asse/short-information/history-of-the-... It might be true that nuclear power produces less waste but we have to consider the scales of global energy demand, multiply it by the time scales of nuclear waste to reach what threshold exactly? When and how would nuclear waste become a problem. Would it take ~200 years like the industrial revolution with CO2? Would it be okay if it where 300 years? or 500? What do we do, when background radiation is rising from ground water and soil? Switch back to natural instead of green energy, hoping the next millenias will be fine? I dont think nuclear power is a solution. It can be step in an energy transition strategy, but no solution.

somanyphotons 1y ago
Ok lets send it on a rocket to a graveyard orbit
- greenavocado 1y ago
  What happens when the rocket explodes on the launchpad or at several thousand feet ASL?
throw0101a 1y ago
> And then eventually, water seeps in. Not if it's below non-porous rock… * https://www.nwmo.ca/who-we-are/how-were-governed/peer-review/geoscientific-review-group https://www.nwmo.ca/who-we-are/how-were-governed/peer-review... * https://www.nwmo.ca/Site-selection/Steps-in-the-site-selection-process/Step-3-Preliminary-assessments-of-suitability/Step-3-Phase-2-Field-studies-and-engagement/2-D-seismic-surveys-in-sedimentary-rocks https://www.nwmo.ca/Site-selection/Steps-in-the-site-selecti... …below the water table… * https://www.nwmo.ca/canadas-plan/canadas-deep-geological-repository https://www.nwmo.ca/canadas-plan/canadas-deep-geological-rep... …packed in non-porous soil/clay: * https://www.nwmo.ca/-/media/Reports-MASTER/Technical-reports/NWMO-TR-2014-10-Characterization-of-Natural-Organic-Matter-in-Bentonite-Clays-2014-05.ashx https://www.nwmo.ca/-/media/Reports-MASTER/Technical-reports... * https://www.nwmo.ca/Canadas-plan/Multiple-barrier-system https://www.nwmo.ca/Canadas-plan/Multiple-barrier-system > When and how would nuclear waste become a problem. Never. If there is ever "too much" of it we reprocess it as per OP article to remove the "non-usable" stuff and burn up the rest. It seems that there's an order of magnitude reduce by recycling (96% is usable fuel, so 4% is left over): * https://www.orano.group/en/unpacking-nuclear/all-about-radioactive-waste-in-france https://www.orano.group/en/unpacking-nuclear/all-about-radio...
- natmaka 1y ago
  Among specialists the consensus is that "Internationally, it is understood that there is no reliable scientific basis for predicting the process or likelihood of inadvertent human intrusion." Source: https://international.andra.fr/sites/international/files/2019-03/An%20International%20Peer%20Review%20of%20the%20Cig%C3%A9o%20project%20%28IAEA%29_0.pdf https://international.andra.fr/sites/international/files/201... Plate tectonic and sismotectonic are also sources of concern: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-005-1148-4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-005-1148-4 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969716314632 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971...
  - throw0101a 1y ago
    Getting smacked with an asteroid like with the dinosaurs is also a source of concern. This endless list of nit picky objections that go on and on and on and on and on, that are brought up no matter how low the probability, is why we can't have nice things (like cheap, reliable, zero-emission electricity available 24/7). More people will die from plane crashes—which is amongst the safest ways to travel—than from nuclear waste radiation in the next few hundred years. Geraldine Thomas, the co-founder of the Chernobyl Tissue Bank, says there are more worrisome things than radiation: * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/26/obesity-smoking-more-dangerous-radiation https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/26/obesity-... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldine_Thomas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldine_Thomas I personally live about 50km nuclear reactor and don't think about it at all. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Nuclear_Generating_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Nuclear_Generating_S...
    - natmaka 1y ago
      > Getting smacked with an asteroid There is nothing we can do about it, therefore comparing this risk the the risk induced by nuclear reactors seems moot to me as we can decide to prefer renewables upon nuclear. > cheap Nuclear-generated electricity is way more expensive than renewables', and the gap is widening. Source: LCOE (the gold standard) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#/media/File:20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_(LCOE,_Lazard)_-_renewable_energy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#... > reliable A continental fleet of a renewables's mix is at least as reliable. > zero-emission No, the total lifecycle emissions of nuclear (industrial PWR) is low (10-15 g eqCO2/KWH) but not zero. > electricity available 24/7 A continental fleet of a renewables's mix with storage (vehicle batteries thru V2Gn, green hydrogen, hydro...). In order to generate electricity even France burns non-negligible amounts of fossil fuel since the inception of its nuclear fleet: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/energy?Metric=Share+of+total+generation&Total+or+Breakdown=Select+a+source&Energy+or+Electricity=Electricity+only&Select+a+source=Fossil+fuels&tab=chart&country=~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/energy?Metric=Share+of+... > More people will die from plane crashes One can decide whether he will (or not) hop on a plane. A nuclear reactor and its waste threatens everyone, even very remotely and in a distant future. Note: my own brother was killed during a jetliner crash (Swissair SR111, 1998).
fastball 1y ago
It is actually not that hard to make something water-tight if you have no intention of opening it again. > I dont think nuclear power is a solution. It can be step in an energy transition strategy, but no solution. Do you mean nuclear fission specifically? Because I can't imagine anything being a long term solution except nuclear power (fusion).
- ViewTrick1002 1y ago
  Over thousands of years?
  - fastball 1y ago
    Sure.

by 74B5 1y ago

somanyphotons 1y ago

Ok lets send it on a rocket to a graveyard orbit

greenavocado 1y ago
What happens when the rocket explodes on the launchpad or at several thousand feet ASL?

throw0101a 1y ago

> And then eventually, water seeps in. Not if it's below non-porous rock… * https://www.nwmo.ca/who-we-are/how-were-governed/peer-review/geoscientific-review-group https://www.nwmo.ca/who-we-are/how-were-governed/peer-review... * https://www.nwmo.ca/Site-selection/Steps-in-the-site-selection-process/Step-3-Preliminary-assessments-of-suitability/Step-3-Phase-2-Field-studies-and-engagement/2-D-seismic-surveys-in-sedimentary-rocks https://www.nwmo.ca/Site-selection/Steps-in-the-site-selecti... …below the water table… * https://www.nwmo.ca/canadas-plan/canadas-deep-geological-repository https://www.nwmo.ca/canadas-plan/canadas-deep-geological-rep... …packed in non-porous soil/clay: * https://www.nwmo.ca/-/media/Reports-MASTER/Technical-reports/NWMO-TR-2014-10-Characterization-of-Natural-Organic-Matter-in-Bentonite-Clays-2014-05.ashx https://www.nwmo.ca/-/media/Reports-MASTER/Technical-reports... * https://www.nwmo.ca/Canadas-plan/Multiple-barrier-system https://www.nwmo.ca/Canadas-plan/Multiple-barrier-system > When and how would nuclear waste become a problem. Never. If there is ever "too much" of it we reprocess it as per OP article to remove the "non-usable" stuff and burn up the rest. It seems that there's an order of magnitude reduce by recycling (96% is usable fuel, so 4% is left over): * https://www.orano.group/en/unpacking-nuclear/all-about-radioactive-waste-in-france https://www.orano.group/en/unpacking-nuclear/all-about-radio...

natmaka 1y ago
Among specialists the consensus is that "Internationally, it is understood that there is no reliable scientific basis for predicting the process or likelihood of inadvertent human intrusion." Source: https://international.andra.fr/sites/international/files/2019-03/An%20International%20Peer%20Review%20of%20the%20Cig%C3%A9o%20project%20%28IAEA%29_0.pdf https://international.andra.fr/sites/international/files/201... Plate tectonic and sismotectonic are also sources of concern: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-005-1148-4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-005-1148-4 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969716314632 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971...
- throw0101a 1y ago
  Getting smacked with an asteroid like with the dinosaurs is also a source of concern. This endless list of nit picky objections that go on and on and on and on and on, that are brought up no matter how low the probability, is why we can't have nice things (like cheap, reliable, zero-emission electricity available 24/7). More people will die from plane crashes—which is amongst the safest ways to travel—than from nuclear waste radiation in the next few hundred years. Geraldine Thomas, the co-founder of the Chernobyl Tissue Bank, says there are more worrisome things than radiation: * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/26/obesity-smoking-more-dangerous-radiation https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/26/obesity-... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldine_Thomas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldine_Thomas I personally live about 50km nuclear reactor and don't think about it at all. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Nuclear_Generating_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Nuclear_Generating_S...
  - natmaka 1y ago
    > Getting smacked with an asteroid There is nothing we can do about it, therefore comparing this risk the the risk induced by nuclear reactors seems moot to me as we can decide to prefer renewables upon nuclear. > cheap Nuclear-generated electricity is way more expensive than renewables', and the gap is widening. Source: LCOE (the gold standard) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#/media/File:20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_(LCOE,_Lazard)_-_renewable_energy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#... > reliable A continental fleet of a renewables's mix is at least as reliable. > zero-emission No, the total lifecycle emissions of nuclear (industrial PWR) is low (10-15 g eqCO2/KWH) but not zero. > electricity available 24/7 A continental fleet of a renewables's mix with storage (vehicle batteries thru V2Gn, green hydrogen, hydro...). In order to generate electricity even France burns non-negligible amounts of fossil fuel since the inception of its nuclear fleet: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/energy?Metric=Share+of+total+generation&Total+or+Breakdown=Select+a+source&Energy+or+Electricity=Electricity+only&Select+a+source=Fossil+fuels&tab=chart&country=~FRA https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/energy?Metric=Share+of+... > More people will die from plane crashes One can decide whether he will (or not) hop on a plane. A nuclear reactor and its waste threatens everyone, even very remotely and in a distant future. Note: my own brother was killed during a jetliner crash (Swissair SR111, 1998).

fastball 1y ago

It is actually not that hard to make something water-tight if you have no intention of opening it again. > I dont think nuclear power is a solution. It can be step in an energy transition strategy, but no solution. Do you mean nuclear fission specifically? Because I can't imagine anything being a long term solution except nuclear power (fusion).

ViewTrick1002 1y ago
Over thousands of years?
- fastball 1y ago
  Sure.