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I have tested this. I have been coding for close to 20 years, in anything from web to embedded. I got tired of hearing about vibe coding day in and day out, so

I have tested this. I have been coding for close to 20 years, in anything from web to embedded. I got tired of hearing about vibe coding day in and day out, so I gave in, and I tried everything under the sun. For the first few days, I started to see the hype. I was much faster at coding, I thought, I can just type this small prompt to the LLM and it will do what I wanted, much faster than I could have. It worked! I didn't bother looking at the code throughly, I was more vigilant the first day, and then less so. The code looks fine, so just click "accept". At first I was amazed by how fast I was going, truly, but then I realized that I didn't know my own code. I didn't know what's happening when and why. I could churn lots of code quickly, but after the first prompt, the code was worth less than toilet paper. I became unable to understand what I was doing, and as I read through the code very little of it made any sense to me, sure the individual lines were readable, functions made some semblance of sense, but there was no logic. Code was just splattered throughout without any sense of where to put anything, global state was used religiously, and slowly it became impossible for me to understand my code. If there was a bug I didn't know where to look, I had to approach this as I would when joining a new company, except that in all my years, even looking through the worst human code I have ever seen, it was not as bad as the AI code.

je42 1y ago
Have you tried to add more guidelines ? Similar to documentation you would provide to new members of the team
- StopVibeCoding 1y ago
  copy paste from a different comment in this thread: > I have tried being specific, I have even gone as far as to feed its prompt with a full requirement document for a feature (1000+ words), and it did not seem to make any significant difference.
CuriouslyC 1y ago
AI writes code according to the instructions given. You can instruct it to architect and organize the code any way you want. You got the fruit of your inarticulation.
- StopVibeCoding 1y ago
  This is what I heard from many people online. I have tried beign specific, I have even gone as far as to feed its prompt with a full requirement document for a feature (1000+ words), and it did not seem to make any significant difference.
  - alsosprachben 1y ago
    Need to use the Wittgenstein approach: “What can be shown cannot be said.” LLMs need you to show it what you want. Its model has seen nothing. Built up a library of examples. Humans also work better this way. Just good practice.
    - polishdude20 1y ago
      I think that's why cursor works well for me. I can say, write this thing that does this in a similar way to other places in the codebase and give it files for context.
  - danjl 1y ago
    You are experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect of using AI. You used it enough to think you understand it, but not enough to really know how to use it well. That's okay, since even if you try and ignore and avoid it for now, eventually you'll have enough experience to understand how to use it well. Like any tool, the better you understand it and the better you understand the problems you're trying to solve, the better job you will do. Give an AI to a product manager and their code will be shit. Give it to a good programmer, and they're likely to ask the right questions and verify the code a little bit more so they get better results.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      > Give an AI to a product manager and their code will be shit. Give it to a good programmer, and they're likely to ask the right questions and verify the code a little bit more so they get better results. I'm finding the inverse correlation: programmers who are bullish on AI are actually just bad programmers. AI use is revealing their own lack of skill and taste.
sokoloff 1y ago
That makes sense. It’s also step 1 in your journey. Maybe taking the AI code as input and refactoring it heavily will result in a better step 2 than your previous step 0 was.
- StopVibeCoding 1y ago
  it makes me feel like an absolute beginner, and not in a good way. It was such a terrible experience that I don't believe I will try this again for at least a year. If this is what programming will become in the future, then feel free to call me a luddite, because I will only write hand crafted code.
mrbluecoat 1y ago
Clearly this affected you deeply enough to create a new HN crusade account. Genuinely curious questions: Did you share this experience with management and your peers? What was their response? What steps could realistically reverse the momentum of vibe coding?
- StopVibeCoding 1y ago
  > Did you share this experience with management and your peers? What was their response? Among my peers, there seemed to be a correlation between programming experience and agreement with my personal experience. I showed a particular colleague a part of the code and he genuinely asked me which one of the new hires wrote this. As for management, well, let's just say that it's going to be an uphill battle :) > What steps could realistically reverse the momentum of vibe coding? For me and my team it's simple, we just won't be using those tools, and will keep being very strict with new hires to do the same. For the software industry as a whole, I don't know. I think it's at least partially a lost cause. Just as the discussions about performance, and in general caring about our craft are.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    I wish you luck, but at this point I think it is going the same path as banning cell phones in workplace/car/we.That is, even with penalties, people will do it.
- almostdeadguy 1y ago
  I love the implicit and totally baseless questioning of motives in this reply.
- DANmode 1y ago
  Sentiment on AI-generated code being so bad that human code is strongly preferred, and marketed.
nico 1y ago
> I became unable to understand what I was doing, and as I read through the code very little of it made any sense to me, sure the individual lines were readable, functions made some semblance of sense, but there was no logic Yes, this happens, and it’s similar to when you first start working on a codebase you didn’t write However, if instead of giving up, you keep going, eventually you do start understanding what the code does You should also refactor the code regularly, and when you do, you get a better picture of where things are and how they interact with each other
- StopVibeCoding 1y ago
  No. It is different, when working with a codebase written by humans there is always sanity. Even when looking at terrible codebases, there is some realm of reason, that once you understand can make navigating the code easy. I believe you missed the part of my comment saying that I have been coding professionally for 20 years. I have seen horrible codebases, and I'm telling you I'd rather see the switch statement with 2000 cases (real story), many of which were 100s of lines long, with C macros used religiously (same codebase). At a bare minimum, once you get over the humps, with human written code, you will always find some realm of reason. A human thought to do this, they had some realm of logic. I couldn't find that with AI, I just found cargo cult programming + shoving things where they make no sense.
  - nico 1y ago
    I respectfully disagree. I have about the same years of experience as you, and now also 1-2 years of AI-assisted coding If you stay on top of the code you are getting from the AI, you end up molding it and understanding it The AI can only spit out so much nonsense until the code just doesn’t work. This varies by codebase complexity Usually when starting from scratch, you can get pretty far with barely even looking at the code, but with bigger repos you’ll have to actively be involved in the process and applying your own logic to what the AI is doing If the code of what you are building doesn’t make sense, it’s essentially because you let it get there. And at the end of the day, it’s your responsibility as the developer to make it make sense. You are ultimately accountable for the delivery of that code. AI is not magic, it’s just a tool
DANmode 1y ago
Useless review without discussing the context, and carefully considered, well-scoped prompt you gave(?) it.

je42 1y ago

Have you tried to add more guidelines ? Similar to documentation you would provide to new members of the team

StopVibeCoding 1y ago
copy paste from a different comment in this thread: > I have tried being specific, I have even gone as far as to feed its prompt with a full requirement document for a feature (1000+ words), and it did not seem to make any significant difference.

CuriouslyC 1y ago

AI writes code according to the instructions given. You can instruct it to architect and organize the code any way you want. You got the fruit of your inarticulation.

StopVibeCoding 1y ago
This is what I heard from many people online. I have tried beign specific, I have even gone as far as to feed its prompt with a full requirement document for a feature (1000+ words), and it did not seem to make any significant difference.
- alsosprachben 1y ago
  Need to use the Wittgenstein approach: “What can be shown cannot be said.” LLMs need you to show it what you want. Its model has seen nothing. Built up a library of examples. Humans also work better this way. Just good practice.
  - polishdude20 1y ago
    I think that's why cursor works well for me. I can say, write this thing that does this in a similar way to other places in the codebase and give it files for context.
- danjl 1y ago
  You are experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect of using AI. You used it enough to think you understand it, but not enough to really know how to use it well. That's okay, since even if you try and ignore and avoid it for now, eventually you'll have enough experience to understand how to use it well. Like any tool, the better you understand it and the better you understand the problems you're trying to solve, the better job you will do. Give an AI to a product manager and their code will be shit. Give it to a good programmer, and they're likely to ask the right questions and verify the code a little bit more so they get better results.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > Give an AI to a product manager and their code will be shit. Give it to a good programmer, and they're likely to ask the right questions and verify the code a little bit more so they get better results. I'm finding the inverse correlation: programmers who are bullish on AI are actually just bad programmers. AI use is revealing their own lack of skill and taste.

sokoloff 1y ago

That makes sense. It’s also step 1 in your journey. Maybe taking the AI code as input and refactoring it heavily will result in a better step 2 than your previous step 0 was.

StopVibeCoding 1y ago
it makes me feel like an absolute beginner, and not in a good way. It was such a terrible experience that I don't believe I will try this again for at least a year. If this is what programming will become in the future, then feel free to call me a luddite, because I will only write hand crafted code.

mrbluecoat 1y ago

Clearly this affected you deeply enough to create a new HN crusade account. Genuinely curious questions: Did you share this experience with management and your peers? What was their response? What steps could realistically reverse the momentum of vibe coding?

StopVibeCoding 1y ago
> Did you share this experience with management and your peers? What was their response? Among my peers, there seemed to be a correlation between programming experience and agreement with my personal experience. I showed a particular colleague a part of the code and he genuinely asked me which one of the new hires wrote this. As for management, well, let's just say that it's going to be an uphill battle :) > What steps could realistically reverse the momentum of vibe coding? For me and my team it's simple, we just won't be using those tools, and will keep being very strict with new hires to do the same. For the software industry as a whole, I don't know. I think it's at least partially a lost cause. Just as the discussions about performance, and in general caring about our craft are.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
  I wish you luck, but at this point I think it is going the same path as banning cell phones in workplace/car/we.That is, even with penalties, people will do it.
almostdeadguy 1y ago
I love the implicit and totally baseless questioning of motives in this reply.
DANmode 1y ago
Sentiment on AI-generated code being so bad that human code is strongly preferred, and marketed.

nico 1y ago

> I became unable to understand what I was doing, and as I read through the code very little of it made any sense to me, sure the individual lines were readable, functions made some semblance of sense, but there was no logic Yes, this happens, and it’s similar to when you first start working on a codebase you didn’t write However, if instead of giving up, you keep going, eventually you do start understanding what the code does You should also refactor the code regularly, and when you do, you get a better picture of where things are and how they interact with each other

StopVibeCoding 1y ago
No. It is different, when working with a codebase written by humans there is always sanity. Even when looking at terrible codebases, there is some realm of reason, that once you understand can make navigating the code easy. I believe you missed the part of my comment saying that I have been coding professionally for 20 years. I have seen horrible codebases, and I'm telling you I'd rather see the switch statement with 2000 cases (real story), many of which were 100s of lines long, with C macros used religiously (same codebase). At a bare minimum, once you get over the humps, with human written code, you will always find some realm of reason. A human thought to do this, they had some realm of logic. I couldn't find that with AI, I just found cargo cult programming + shoving things where they make no sense.
- nico 1y ago
  I respectfully disagree. I have about the same years of experience as you, and now also 1-2 years of AI-assisted coding If you stay on top of the code you are getting from the AI, you end up molding it and understanding it The AI can only spit out so much nonsense until the code just doesn’t work. This varies by codebase complexity Usually when starting from scratch, you can get pretty far with barely even looking at the code, but with bigger repos you’ll have to actively be involved in the process and applying your own logic to what the AI is doing If the code of what you are building doesn’t make sense, it’s essentially because you let it get there. And at the end of the day, it’s your responsibility as the developer to make it make sense. You are ultimately accountable for the delivery of that code. AI is not magic, it’s just a tool

DANmode 1y ago

Useless review without discussing the context, and carefully considered, well-scoped prompt you gave(?) it.