15 ms·

Yeah, there's simply a lot of 'Muricans thinking programming and software dev. for some reason only can be done inside of the US. As a EU senior dev I know zer

by g0db1t 1y ago

Yeah, there's simply a lot of 'Muricans thinking programming and software dev. for some reason only can be done inside of the US. As a EU senior dev I know zero senior devs making six figures pa - Go figure

bravesoul2 1y ago
I think there is game theory at play. I don't think Google for example is leaving money on the table. They hire worldwide of course but they are not swapping US for cheaper countries on mass and it must be for a good reason. Maybe it's a missed opportunity and some YC company dominates the new arbitrage. Who knows! I think I like the soil analogy. Moving the palm tree to another spot is risky if it's doing well in its current soil.
CalRobert 1y ago
It's not the heady days of 2022 but six figures shouldn't be impossible for someone with 10+ years of experience. But the trick is to (mostly) ignore the European companies and go for the American ones operating in Europe. Switzerland, Norway, and Ireland can be decent too. I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though. Are German wages really low? I thought Germany as the richest country in Europe.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    They seem much lower than, say, Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Eastern and southern Europe are low but also lower cost of living. A fraction of the US regardless.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      I think you're only looking at big tech wages when you compare with Ireland. Norway doesn't have much of a tech industry.
      - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
        Yeah but there's lots and lots of no big tech US companies in Ireland. They generally don't have much equity or bonuses but the base is OK. I got 6 figures from a bunch of them in Ireland so it's possible.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        How much of that wage is left after taxes and Dublin housing?
        disgruntledphd2 1y ago
        Feck all, unfortunately. Like, if you either 1. buy a house some years back or 2. get an off-books rental through someone you know then you can do well. Alternatively, if you work for one of the Big Tech places then you'll get a really good wage (by irish standards) as well as enough benefits to make you feel a bunch better off. Additionally the bonuses and equity there help a lot. But yeah, Ireland's super expensive. Our household is at about the 85% percentile income, and we have a (small/expensive) house but we don't have a lot left after all of our outgoings. So yeah, you can get a better salary but you probably won't have a whole lot more disposable income (but apart from all that, ireland's a great place to live).
        CalRobert 1y ago
        Yeah, we tried to hack this by buying a cheap place in Offaly near the train and working remote, and it was kinda-sorta OK except that our neighbours were hell on Earth. Gave up and moved to the Netherlands which has been great for our kids' independence. I do miss a good snug though.
  - okanat 1y ago
    Usually one earns half to a third of net wage in Germany compared to East Coast US. A maximum of 100k total cash compensation is usually the norm for mid-size companies. That is for the most senior engineers. It is also taxed almost at 50%.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Isn't that the norm everywhere in Europe?
      - okanat 1y ago
        Isn't what the norm? Europe is not the US. Each country has its own living standards and completely different tax laws. EU doesn't unify them. In Switzerland one pays much less tax. In Netherlands it is possible to get 30% tax break if you haven't lived there for more than 5 years. Both the Netherlands and Switzerland pay higher wages too.
      - CalRobert 1y ago
        Lots of countries are lower, especially in southern Europe.
kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
Six figures isn't special in the US for skilled tech workers. My starting salary as a college grad 25 years ago was an unremarkable $55K when dotcoms were slinging six figure salaries and options. That is now $102K.

by g0db1t 1y ago

bravesoul2 1y ago

I think there is game theory at play. I don't think Google for example is leaving money on the table. They hire worldwide of course but they are not swapping US for cheaper countries on mass and it must be for a good reason. Maybe it's a missed opportunity and some YC company dominates the new arbitrage. Who knows! I think I like the soil analogy. Moving the palm tree to another spot is risky if it's doing well in its current soil.

CalRobert 1y ago

It's not the heady days of 2022 but six figures shouldn't be impossible for someone with 10+ years of experience. But the trick is to (mostly) ignore the European companies and go for the American ones operating in Europe. Switzerland, Norway, and Ireland can be decent too. I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
>I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though. Are German wages really low? I thought Germany as the richest country in Europe.
- CalRobert 1y ago
  They seem much lower than, say, Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Eastern and southern Europe are low but also lower cost of living. A fraction of the US regardless.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    I think you're only looking at big tech wages when you compare with Ireland. Norway doesn't have much of a tech industry.
    - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
      Yeah but there's lots and lots of no big tech US companies in Ireland. They generally don't have much equity or bonuses but the base is OK. I got 6 figures from a bunch of them in Ireland so it's possible.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        How much of that wage is left after taxes and Dublin housing?
        disgruntledphd2 1y ago
        Feck all, unfortunately. Like, if you either 1. buy a house some years back or 2. get an off-books rental through someone you know then you can do well. Alternatively, if you work for one of the Big Tech places then you'll get a really good wage (by irish standards) as well as enough benefits to make you feel a bunch better off. Additionally the bonuses and equity there help a lot. But yeah, Ireland's super expensive. Our household is at about the 85% percentile income, and we have a (small/expensive) house but we don't have a lot left after all of our outgoings. So yeah, you can get a better salary but you probably won't have a whole lot more disposable income (but apart from all that, ireland's a great place to live).
        CalRobert 1y ago
        Yeah, we tried to hack this by buying a cheap place in Offaly near the train and working remote, and it was kinda-sorta OK except that our neighbours were hell on Earth. Gave up and moved to the Netherlands which has been great for our kids' independence. I do miss a good snug though.
- okanat 1y ago
  Usually one earns half to a third of net wage in Germany compared to East Coast US. A maximum of 100k total cash compensation is usually the norm for mid-size companies. That is for the most senior engineers. It is also taxed almost at 50%.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Isn't that the norm everywhere in Europe?
    - okanat 1y ago
      Isn't what the norm? Europe is not the US. Each country has its own living standards and completely different tax laws. EU doesn't unify them. In Switzerland one pays much less tax. In Netherlands it is possible to get 30% tax break if you haven't lived there for more than 5 years. Both the Netherlands and Switzerland pay higher wages too.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Lots of countries are lower, especially in southern Europe.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago

Six figures isn't special in the US for skilled tech workers. My starting salary as a college grad 25 years ago was an unremarkable $55K when dotcoms were slinging six figure salaries and options. That is now $102K.