6 ms·

Regarding the discussion of ger/yurt districts in cities, it's also important not to underestimate the cultural significance of the nomadic lifestyle and yurt c

by furyg3 1y ago

Regarding the discussion of ger/yurt districts in cities, it's also important not to underestimate the cultural significance of the nomadic lifestyle and yurt culture. Changing climate (desertification) and economic conditions have meant that a lot of people have given up their nomadic lifestyle and moved to cities or their outskirts (mostly Ulaanbaatar). They often are reluctant to do so, it's a big step, and they often hope it is a temporary one. They set up their yurts not only because of housing shortages, but many are also hesitant to move into apartments or other permanent structures as it's seen as the last step in giving up this nomadic lifestyle. Often they are setting up their yurts next to permanent structures, either because they are living in the 'yard' of relatives or to expand their residences and stay connected to their culture. You can see examples of this in the first images.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago
It also sounds like they would already have one, and / or that it would be relatively easy to move if they want or need to. Don't they go back to their more rural homes for special events, for example?
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  Moving a ger can be a significant effort, especially a large one. Most urban dwellers find owning the trucks and vans that can hold these things pretty impractical if they're not moving regularly. There's a fairly large domestic tourism industry catering to urban city-dwellers who want to go live in a nice ger for a couple weeks to feel connected to their history.
qq66 1y ago
Agree - ger living is not necessarily a failure of public policy, it could just be a cultural decision. Even Genghis Khan lived in a ger. Of course, for some people, it's likely to be a matter of necessity, for others, a matter of choice, but it's not prima facie bad. > When ineffective policy results in a large chunk of the populace generationally living in yurts on the outskirts of urban areas, it’s clear that there is failure. That's not at all clear.
- aaron695 1y ago
  > That's not at all clear. LLMs agree with OP. It's a failure, with important culture. Steelmanning it, it's better than a corrugated metal shanty town. Although they would die in the cold. The rich in the gers burn coal, the poor plastic. There is no water or sewerage. It's one of the most polluted capitals in the world - https://www.unicef.org/mongolia/environment-air-pollution#:~:text=one%20of%20the%20most%20polluted%20capitals%20in%20the%20world https://www.unicef.org/mongolia/environment-air-pollution#:~... Ulaanbaatar - https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=47_56_7_N_106_52_38_E https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=47_56_7_N_1...
  - ty6853 1y ago
    I'm not sure about Mongolia, but elsewhere I've seen wooden platforms for yurts under which water and sewage is ran, much as you would do with a crawlspace type house.
    - aaron695 1y ago
      [dead]
  - TimorousBestie 1y ago
    What’s the point of citing unspecified “LLMs”? Do you expect this to be persuasive? And why more than one?
    - aaron695 1y ago
      [dead]
  - School-Cotton 1y ago
    The most annoying thing about modern life is people citing LLMs to try to win arguments about subjective questions. They are biased to agree with anything you ask them, and will do so unless it’s blatantly factually untrue.
orbital-decay 1y ago
I've traveled across Mongolia on a motorcycle many years ago, and one thing I never expected is how absolutely everyone living in a permanent house also has a yurt in their backyard, regardless of how good the house is. This made no sense to me as an outsider (like, do you really need a second house?) so I asked a local about this, and was given a funny look. Yurts are just hardwired into the culture, it's a status symbol, it's where you invite a guest, it's what you use when living outside, it so many things at once.
- sfn42 1y ago
  So it's basically Mongolia's answer to the Finnish sauna
  - datameta 1y ago
    Only insofar as both building types are recognized externally as inextricably linked to the culture, right? Sauna is deeply rooted in Finnish culture but not quite to the level or multipurpose use of ger.
    - tough 1y ago
      sounds like the concept of a pool/guest house to me
- helpfulclippy 1y ago
  One of my best Airbnb experiences was staying in a yurt in the backyard of a Mongolian woman…in Wisconsin. It was great. They also had a huge fire pit with tons of chairs around it, and I could tell they loved having tons of people over and just hanging out.
throwup238 1y ago
Mongolia is also really struggling right now with a mass migration off the plains because of several very cold winters that have decimated their flocks. There just isn’t enough room for them to move into permanent buildings even if they wanted to.
codesnik 1y ago
I've been in a Uzbekistan palace, I think it was Khiva. And it was, well, a palace, with courts and richly decorated rooms. But at certain fully enclosed by walls court there was a circular place where yurt have been standing. Khans were tracing their lineages back to Genghis Khan, and it was unbecoming for the khan to spend nights under the firm roof, even if it's in a middle of the city with long sedentary life style traditions. All the visiting relatives wouldn't approve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace#/media/File:KhivaTach_Khaouli_reception_yard_Iwan.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace#/media/File:K... that circular spot.

by furyg3 1y ago

Cthulhu_ 1y ago

It also sounds like they would already have one, and / or that it would be relatively easy to move if they want or need to. Don't they go back to their more rural homes for special events, for example?

AlotOfReading 1y ago
Moving a ger can be a significant effort, especially a large one. Most urban dwellers find owning the trucks and vans that can hold these things pretty impractical if they're not moving regularly. There's a fairly large domestic tourism industry catering to urban city-dwellers who want to go live in a nice ger for a couple weeks to feel connected to their history.

qq66 1y ago

Agree - ger living is not necessarily a failure of public policy, it could just be a cultural decision. Even Genghis Khan lived in a ger. Of course, for some people, it's likely to be a matter of necessity, for others, a matter of choice, but it's not prima facie bad. > When ineffective policy results in a large chunk of the populace generationally living in yurts on the outskirts of urban areas, it’s clear that there is failure. That's not at all clear.

aaron695 1y ago
> That's not at all clear. LLMs agree with OP. It's a failure, with important culture. Steelmanning it, it's better than a corrugated metal shanty town. Although they would die in the cold. The rich in the gers burn coal, the poor plastic. There is no water or sewerage. It's one of the most polluted capitals in the world - https://www.unicef.org/mongolia/environment-air-pollution#:~:text=one%20of%20the%20most%20polluted%20capitals%20in%20the%20world https://www.unicef.org/mongolia/environment-air-pollution#:~... Ulaanbaatar - https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=47_56_7_N_106_52_38_E https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=47_56_7_N_1...
- ty6853 1y ago
  I'm not sure about Mongolia, but elsewhere I've seen wooden platforms for yurts under which water and sewage is ran, much as you would do with a crawlspace type house.
  - aaron695 1y ago
    [dead]
- TimorousBestie 1y ago
  What’s the point of citing unspecified “LLMs”? Do you expect this to be persuasive? And why more than one?
  - aaron695 1y ago
    [dead]
- School-Cotton 1y ago
  The most annoying thing about modern life is people citing LLMs to try to win arguments about subjective questions. They are biased to agree with anything you ask them, and will do so unless it’s blatantly factually untrue.

orbital-decay 1y ago

I've traveled across Mongolia on a motorcycle many years ago, and one thing I never expected is how absolutely everyone living in a permanent house also has a yurt in their backyard, regardless of how good the house is. This made no sense to me as an outsider (like, do you really need a second house?) so I asked a local about this, and was given a funny look. Yurts are just hardwired into the culture, it's a status symbol, it's where you invite a guest, it's what you use when living outside, it so many things at once.

sfn42 1y ago
So it's basically Mongolia's answer to the Finnish sauna
- datameta 1y ago
  Only insofar as both building types are recognized externally as inextricably linked to the culture, right? Sauna is deeply rooted in Finnish culture but not quite to the level or multipurpose use of ger.
  - tough 1y ago
    sounds like the concept of a pool/guest house to me
helpfulclippy 1y ago
One of my best Airbnb experiences was staying in a yurt in the backyard of a Mongolian woman…in Wisconsin. It was great. They also had a huge fire pit with tons of chairs around it, and I could tell they loved having tons of people over and just hanging out.

throwup238 1y ago

Mongolia is also really struggling right now with a mass migration off the plains because of several very cold winters that have decimated their flocks. There just isn’t enough room for them to move into permanent buildings even if they wanted to.

codesnik 1y ago

I've been in a Uzbekistan palace, I think it was Khiva. And it was, well, a palace, with courts and richly decorated rooms. But at certain fully enclosed by walls court there was a circular place where yurt have been standing. Khans were tracing their lineages back to Genghis Khan, and it was unbecoming for the khan to spend nights under the firm roof, even if it's in a middle of the city with long sedentary life style traditions. All the visiting relatives wouldn't approve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace#/media/File:KhivaTach_Khaouli_reception_yard_Iwan.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshhovli_Palace#/media/File:K... that circular spot.