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Original comment was flagged, so jumping onto this one. The phrases used by @refurb are commonly repeated phrases, but they are missing nuance. Masks absolute

by lysp 1y ago

Original comment was flagged, so jumping onto this one. The phrases used by @refurb are commonly repeated phrases, but they are missing nuance. Masks absolutely work, just ask any nurse who didn't catch COVID while working 12-hour shifts for weeks in a COVID ward. The issue like you said is the right type of mask, and wearing it properly. Half the time people were wearing masks with their nose poking out, or under their chin. Even wearing it fully covering - if it isn't airtight, and you haven't pinched the wired nose connection removing the small gap, it still won't work. Similar with vaccines, science isn't exact, so a statement made at the start of the pandemic is not going to be the same 12-18 months later. There were dozens of variants of COVID each with different levels of risk. A vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't catch the virus, but can minimise or reduce symptoms, reduce spread, prime your body with some antibodies for your body to start combating it sooner. So it's easy to say someone "lied". But data changes. Also, you have to make statements for the general population (lowest common denominator), not people with an educated / scientific / medical background. Vaccines, masks, social distancing are all part of the Swiss Cheese Model which will reduce risk, but not eliminate it.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
refurb 1y ago
> Masks absolutely work, just ask any nurse who didn't catch COVID while working 12-hour shifts for weeks in a COVID ward. The issue like you said is the right type of mask, and wearing it properly. “Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.” - Fauci statement on March 8, 2020 "Wear a mask." — Dr. Anthony Fauci, CNN interview, May 21, 2020 It's wild to see people wave their hands to explain that away.
- aaronbaugher 1y ago
  People have short memories. In the early months of 2020, the CDC and WHO both recommended not wearing masks, for good reason. Decades of research had shown cloth masks were completely ineffective, and N95 masks were only effective if fitted professionally, and those should be reserved for health workers anyway. People who started buying up masks in early 2020 were accused of hoarding and possible price gouging. Then the CDC changed its stance due to pressure from politicians who wanted to be seen as Doing Something, and we got the mask mandates starting in May. Masking took over as the most visible symbol of being a goodthinker, to the point that other efforts like social distancing and hand-washing were largely forgotten. I remember mask-wearers constantly going against the arrows in the aisles of the grocery stores, apparently thinking their loose cloth masks protected themselves and others around them so well that they could ignore all the other rules. It was an incredibly stupid time, and a lot of the stupidity came from the top, from talking heads like Fauci who flipped overnight on questions like that and expected everyone not to notice.
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  > LaPook, March 8: There’s a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that? > Fauci: The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks. > LaPook: You’re sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this. > Fauci: …There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face. > LaPook: And can you get some schmutz, sort of staying inside there? > Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks, you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who, when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks — that’s fine, that’s fine. I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine. > LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks? > Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it. Its not waving hands. Im really curious why you hold that opinion though. Do you not care that much about what the actual truth is? Like do you hear/read about how Fauci said opposing things supposedly, and just don't care enough to check the facts? Or is there another reason why you believe he is contradicting himself.
  - refurb 1y ago
    How you can read even just this conversation and walk away without thinking Fauci is at best terrible at public health communications, at worst guilty of flip flopping is beyond me. Even in this one conversation - "The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else…" to "And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face." to "I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine." to "It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it." Just in this one interview it goes from "if you're healthy you don't need one" to "masks can actually make things worse" to "if you want to do it, it's fine" to "don't do it, it could lead to a shortage". Then a month or two later, he's supporting strict mask mandates even for healthy people. If there is another health crisis, this guy should never be allowed to talk to the media ever again.
- const_cast 1y ago
  1950 - "smoking reduces stress and improves longevity" 1970 - "smoking is harmful" Checkmate, scientists! In all seriousness, we don't need a vast conspiracy for this. It's called being wrong and changing your mind, we do it all the fucking time. Nobody expects what people said about Tuberculosis in 1920 to be 100% accurate today. But for some reason, people expect what was said about Covid in the beginning to ALWAYS be accurate. Why would that be the case? It's a novel disease. Yeah duh our understanding is going to change.
  - refurb 1y ago
    You're comparing decades of science that results in different conclusions, to a 13 day period? And don't you think it's smart to not make definitive statements if you don't really know? This is all basic public relations 101.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      Yes, because within a 13 day period of course your understanding can change. I agree their PR could have been a little better. But, it was also not that bad all things considered. The thing is conspiracy theorists would've rejected any vaccine, and there's nothing anybody could have done about that. Ultimately the CDC can't make stupid people unstupid.

by lysp 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

refurb 1y ago

> Masks absolutely work, just ask any nurse who didn't catch COVID while working 12-hour shifts for weeks in a COVID ward. The issue like you said is the right type of mask, and wearing it properly. “Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.” - Fauci statement on March 8, 2020 "Wear a mask." — Dr. Anthony Fauci, CNN interview, May 21, 2020 It's wild to see people wave their hands to explain that away.

aaronbaugher 1y ago
People have short memories. In the early months of 2020, the CDC and WHO both recommended not wearing masks, for good reason. Decades of research had shown cloth masks were completely ineffective, and N95 masks were only effective if fitted professionally, and those should be reserved for health workers anyway. People who started buying up masks in early 2020 were accused of hoarding and possible price gouging. Then the CDC changed its stance due to pressure from politicians who wanted to be seen as Doing Something, and we got the mask mandates starting in May. Masking took over as the most visible symbol of being a goodthinker, to the point that other efforts like social distancing and hand-washing were largely forgotten. I remember mask-wearers constantly going against the arrows in the aisles of the grocery stores, apparently thinking their loose cloth masks protected themselves and others around them so well that they could ignore all the other rules. It was an incredibly stupid time, and a lot of the stupidity came from the top, from talking heads like Fauci who flipped overnight on questions like that and expected everyone not to notice.
ActorNightly 1y ago
> LaPook, March 8: There’s a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that? > Fauci: The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks. > LaPook: You’re sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this. > Fauci: …There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face. > LaPook: And can you get some schmutz, sort of staying inside there? > Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks, you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who, when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks — that’s fine, that’s fine. I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine. > LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks? > Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it. Its not waving hands. Im really curious why you hold that opinion though. Do you not care that much about what the actual truth is? Like do you hear/read about how Fauci said opposing things supposedly, and just don't care enough to check the facts? Or is there another reason why you believe he is contradicting himself.
- refurb 1y ago
  How you can read even just this conversation and walk away without thinking Fauci is at best terrible at public health communications, at worst guilty of flip flopping is beyond me. Even in this one conversation - "The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else…" to "And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face." to "I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine." to "It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it." Just in this one interview it goes from "if you're healthy you don't need one" to "masks can actually make things worse" to "if you want to do it, it's fine" to "don't do it, it could lead to a shortage". Then a month or two later, he's supporting strict mask mandates even for healthy people. If there is another health crisis, this guy should never be allowed to talk to the media ever again.
const_cast 1y ago
1950 - "smoking reduces stress and improves longevity" 1970 - "smoking is harmful" Checkmate, scientists! In all seriousness, we don't need a vast conspiracy for this. It's called being wrong and changing your mind, we do it all the fucking time. Nobody expects what people said about Tuberculosis in 1920 to be 100% accurate today. But for some reason, people expect what was said about Covid in the beginning to ALWAYS be accurate. Why would that be the case? It's a novel disease. Yeah duh our understanding is going to change.
- refurb 1y ago
  You're comparing decades of science that results in different conclusions, to a 13 day period? And don't you think it's smart to not make definitive statements if you don't really know? This is all basic public relations 101.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    Yes, because within a 13 day period of course your understanding can change. I agree their PR could have been a little better. But, it was also not that bad all things considered. The thing is conspiracy theorists would've rejected any vaccine, and there's nothing anybody could have done about that. Ultimately the CDC can't make stupid people unstupid.