9 ms·

Doesn't "DEI" basically mean treating others nicely?

anonfordays 1y ago
[dead]
bmacho 1y ago
No it means treat minorities (gays, women, people of color) nicely and others (straight people, men, white people) badly.
msgodel 1y ago
No and it never has. The default position on the internet, the one technologists working on open source always took, is that only the ideas matter and if your ideas are good you'll be included. DEI became popular because that wasn't good enough for certain groups of people who consistently failed to produce good ideas and wanted to wedge themselves in anyway.
- toastercat 1y ago
  Any policy can be abused, including DEI. But as a whole, I think DEI has done enormous good.
- MrArthegor 1y ago
  Yeah, from a non-US citizen views, this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. And the message sent is disastrous. Personally I am part of people who have big advantages with actual DEI policy, but I am firmly against that, because I want to be employed for my skills, not because I fit a quota or anything like that.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals (and you can invert the group and make the same policy switch from "for" to "against".) The question is what group of individuals.
    - subsistence234 1y ago
      > Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals Lol are you talking about "discrimination" on the basis of task-relevant skills? Until 20 years ago, nobody in OS cared who you were IRL, your gender, ethnicity etc. In many cases they didn't even know, plenty people only contributed under pseudonyms. Hard to believe for people who only joined the show after social media had become pretty much mandatory, and the "I don't care who you are IRL"-crowd got drowned out by "who you are IRL is the most important thing, not what you contribute"-crowd.
      - worik 1y ago
        > Until 20 years ago, nobody in OS cared who you were IRL, your gender, ethnicity etc. I So was it only white boys interested? True, maybe, nobody cared. But it was all white boys, with very few exceptions, when I started. I think we need diversity. Am I wrong?
        ranger_danger 1y ago
        I think their point is that there was never any reason to even know what people identify as, or your political views, and that there still shouldn't be. That things like "diversity" in online-only circles doesn't really make sense. I don't want to know your sexual preferences or your gender identity, not that I am against anything, just that it's completely irrelevant to writing code and learning about technology etc. and only seems to lead to more drama by including it at all. As a more personal example, I no longer support the Linux kernel because I no longer consider it fully "open" to contributions, especially when accepting those contributions are no longer based solely on technical merit, but are also actively rejected for political reasons, even for patches that are merely fixes, which benefits everyone, and not just a sanctioned country. Even going so far as removing names from the maintainers list because of some unspoken combination of their country of origin, employer or political affiliation. Not only the lack of advance notice, transparency and empathy, but the abusive attitude Linus continues to display to the world about this and many other issues.
        subsistence234 1y ago
tommica 1y ago
Pretty sure it did, unfortunately it got swung to an extreme extent in some circles :(
- krautsauce 1y ago
  [flagged]
ivewonyoung 1y ago
[flagged]
Incipient 1y ago
DEI is another selector added to "meritocracy" vs "nepotism". You either give the job to the best candidate, your friend, or a minority. It has nothing to do with "nice". You can be nice, or an ass. DEI doesn't preclude you being either.
krautsauce 1y ago
[flagged]
johnnyjeans 1y ago
reading too deeply into it, it's basically an interjection. it doesn't refer to any meaningful facet of objective reality, it only exists according to the socio-political hallucinations of americans. doesn't matter if it's said positively or negatively, it's just a virtue signal long devoid of meaning. a bird's mating dance, if you will, but for burger-eaters.
- worik 1y ago
  [flagged]
airhangerf15 1y ago
The DEI in DEI actually means conformity of thought. It's oddly eugenical and does not foster "diverse ideas"
- worik 1y ago
  That is the exact opposite of what it means.
  - airhangerf15 1y ago
    People with diverse thoughts are not allowed in with DEI, only diverse genetics. I think you don't understand the word "opposite" or .. "means"
  - bmacho 1y ago
    And the exact same of what it is.
sweeter 1y ago
This dude is definitely into some hysterical right wing conspiracies. I remember he got yelled at by Linus Torvalds on the LKML for trying to spread anti-vax bs. https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 I always find it ironic how people like this non-stop whine about "politics in mah FOSS" or video games or w/e, but will turn around and write a manifesto in the README drenched in right wing politically charged slop. ultimately I really don't care what they spend their time doing, some people still want X11 and if they can keep it running then good for them. I use Wayland because it looks a lot better and is a lot smoother. Its that simple.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  > I use Wayland because it looks a lot better Sorry but, what? Wayland doesn't have any concept of a "look" that I'm aware of, so how would one tell the difference?
  - sweeter 1y ago
    Wayland is a lot smoothet than X. The colors are better too and there's just something about how the pixels are rendered that looks a million times better. It becomes apparent after using Wayland and then going back to X.
- h0x44 1y ago
  [flagged]
- imsodin 1y ago
  Oh this link is gold, thanks :) Alread the completely unrelated mention of DEI on the reasoning for a fork, that's supposedly about doing big changes that are suppressed on the original project, is a pretty damning sign. Knowing he is also an anti-vaxxer nut-job says everything you need to know about his judgement. Sure the fork isn't "medical" or otherwise related to vaccines, but at least adequate judgement is needed for anything.

[dead]

No it means treat minorities (gays, women, people of color) nicely and others (straight people, men, white people) badly.

msgodel 1y ago

No and it never has. The default position on the internet, the one technologists working on open source always took, is that only the ideas matter and if your ideas are good you'll be included. DEI became popular because that wasn't good enough for certain groups of people who consistently failed to produce good ideas and wanted to wedge themselves in anyway.

toastercat 1y ago
Any policy can be abused, including DEI. But as a whole, I think DEI has done enormous good.
MrArthegor 1y ago
Yeah, from a non-US citizen views, this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. And the message sent is disastrous. Personally I am part of people who have big advantages with actual DEI policy, but I am firmly against that, because I want to be employed for my skills, not because I fit a quota or anything like that.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals (and you can invert the group and make the same policy switch from "for" to "against".) The question is what group of individuals.
  - subsistence234 1y ago
    > Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals Lol are you talking about "discrimination" on the basis of task-relevant skills? Until 20 years ago, nobody in OS cared who you were IRL, your gender, ethnicity etc. In many cases they didn't even know, plenty people only contributed under pseudonyms. Hard to believe for people who only joined the show after social media had become pretty much mandatory, and the "I don't care who you are IRL"-crowd got drowned out by "who you are IRL is the most important thing, not what you contribute"-crowd.
    - worik 1y ago
      > Until 20 years ago, nobody in OS cared who you were IRL, your gender, ethnicity etc. I So was it only white boys interested? True, maybe, nobody cared. But it was all white boys, with very few exceptions, when I started. I think we need diversity. Am I wrong?
      - ranger_danger 1y ago
        I think their point is that there was never any reason to even know what people identify as, or your political views, and that there still shouldn't be. That things like "diversity" in online-only circles doesn't really make sense. I don't want to know your sexual preferences or your gender identity, not that I am against anything, just that it's completely irrelevant to writing code and learning about technology etc. and only seems to lead to more drama by including it at all. As a more personal example, I no longer support the Linux kernel because I no longer consider it fully "open" to contributions, especially when accepting those contributions are no longer based solely on technical merit, but are also actively rejected for political reasons, even for patches that are merely fixes, which benefits everyone, and not just a sanctioned country. Even going so far as removing names from the maintainers list because of some unspoken combination of their country of origin, employer or political affiliation. Not only the lack of advance notice, transparency and empathy, but the abusive attitude Linus continues to display to the world about this and many other issues.
      - subsistence234 1y ago

tommica 1y ago

Pretty sure it did, unfortunately it got swung to an extreme extent in some circles :(

krautsauce 1y ago
[flagged]

ivewonyoung 1y ago

[flagged]

Incipient 1y ago

DEI is another selector added to "meritocracy" vs "nepotism". You either give the job to the best candidate, your friend, or a minority. It has nothing to do with "nice". You can be nice, or an ass. DEI doesn't preclude you being either.

krautsauce 1y ago

[flagged]

johnnyjeans 1y ago

reading too deeply into it, it's basically an interjection. it doesn't refer to any meaningful facet of objective reality, it only exists according to the socio-political hallucinations of americans. doesn't matter if it's said positively or negatively, it's just a virtue signal long devoid of meaning. a bird's mating dance, if you will, but for burger-eaters.

worik 1y ago
[flagged]

airhangerf15 1y ago

The DEI in DEI actually means conformity of thought. It's oddly eugenical and does not foster "diverse ideas"

worik 1y ago
That is the exact opposite of what it means.
- airhangerf15 1y ago
  People with diverse thoughts are not allowed in with DEI, only diverse genetics. I think you don't understand the word "opposite" or .. "means"
- bmacho 1y ago
  And the exact same of what it is.

sweeter 1y ago

This dude is definitely into some hysterical right wing conspiracies. I remember he got yelled at by Linus Torvalds on the LKML for trying to spread anti-vax bs. https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957 I always find it ironic how people like this non-stop whine about "politics in mah FOSS" or video games or w/e, but will turn around and write a manifesto in the README drenched in right wing politically charged slop. ultimately I really don't care what they spend their time doing, some people still want X11 and if they can keep it running then good for them. I use Wayland because it looks a lot better and is a lot smoother. Its that simple.

ranger_danger 1y ago
> I use Wayland because it looks a lot better Sorry but, what? Wayland doesn't have any concept of a "look" that I'm aware of, so how would one tell the difference?
- sweeter 1y ago
  Wayland is a lot smoothet than X. The colors are better too and there's just something about how the pixels are rendered that looks a million times better. It becomes apparent after using Wayland and then going back to X.
h0x44 1y ago
[flagged]
imsodin 1y ago
Oh this link is gold, thanks :) Alread the completely unrelated mention of DEI on the reasoning for a fork, that's supposedly about doing big changes that are suppressed on the original project, is a pretty damning sign. Knowing he is also an anti-vaxxer nut-job says everything you need to know about his judgement. Sure the fork isn't "medical" or otherwise related to vaccines, but at least adequate judgement is needed for anything.