7 ms·

Why are big media outlets suddenly sharing this guys ideas?

ceejayoz 1y ago
Because the folks in power are suddenly endorsing them?
kragen 1y ago
Because the Vice President of the US is a devotee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_1#%E2%80%9CNeoreactionary_allegations%E2%80%9D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_1#%E2%80... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_2#Political_Views_/philosophy_in_Lead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_2#Politi...
- nailer 1y ago
  Can you post direct links to actual references, rather than Wikipedia talk pages?
  - kragen 1y ago
    That's a perfectly reasonable request, but I didn't have them. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/15/jd-vance-55-things-trump-vp-00167882 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/15/jd-vance-5... is one, I guess. Aha, https://unherd.com/2024/11/j-d-vance-de-facto-prince-of-the-maga-movement/ https://unherd.com/2024/11/j-d-vance-de-facto-prince-of-the-... says, > Vance has described himself as a “reactionary” at war with the “regime”. He drops casual references to his personal friend Curtis Yarvin, and he’s fond of delivering thunderous pronouncements like “the universities are the enemy” (the title of a 2021 speech) and “fire every single mid-level bureaucrat” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_JD_Vance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_JD_Vanc... looks like the jackpot, though, leading to https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/18/jd-vance-world-view-sources-00168984 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/18/jd-vance-w...: > Vance has said he considers Yarvin a friend and has cited his writings in connection with his plan to fire a significant number of civil servants during a potential second Trump administration. “There’s this guy Curtis Yarvin, who has written about some of these things,” Vance said on a conservative podcast in 2021, adding: “I think Trump is going to run again in 2024 [and] I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.” Which links to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMq1ZEcyztY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMq1ZEcyztY. And https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right... is entitled, "What Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and others are learning from Curtis Yarvin and the New Right,": > Yarvin had given people a way to articulate a notion that somehow felt subversive to say out loud in America—that history was headed in the wrong direction. “Somebody said something earlier that captured it for me,” [Yarvin's girlfriend] Laurenson said, just before they had to leave to go to a slightly hush-hush private dinner with Vance and a few others. “They said, ‘You can be here and know you’re not alone.’” (...) > “So there’s this guy Curtis Yarvin, who has written about some of these things,” Vance said. Murphy chortled knowingly. “So one [option] is to basically accept that this entire thing is going to fall in on itself,” Vance went on. “And so the task of conservatives right now is to preserve as much as can be preserved,” waiting for the “inevitable collapse” of the current order.
    - animal_spirits 1y ago
      Yarvin stated in an interview that he barely knows Vance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcSil8NeQq8&ab_channel=TheInterview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcSil8NeQq8&ab_channel=TheIn...
      - kragen 1y ago
        I'm sure that's true; a common fate for popular authors is that they barely know many of their readers and don't know other readers at all.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        To contextualize that claim, I'd quote the article: > "'How dangerous is it that we are being linked?' Thiel wrote to Yarvin in 2014. “One reassuring thought: one of our hidden advantages is that these people”—social-justice warriors—'wouldn’t believe in a conspiracy if it hit them over the head (this is perhaps the best measure of the decline of the Left). Linkages make them sound really crazy, and they kinda know it.'"
        kragen 1y ago
        In this context, three years ago, Vance was describing Yarvin as his "good friend" (when he was campaigning for a seat in the US Senate, which he won), while four months ago, Yarvin is saying he barely knows Vance. If you're suggesting that the apparent discrepancy is a result of strategic dishonesty for reputation preservation, that would mean that either: 1. Yarvin wants to distance himself from Vance because he fears reputational damage from being associated with the US Vice President. (But from other evidence, cited in https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/moldbug-sold-out https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/moldbug-sold-out, this seems implausible.) 2. Vance wanted to exaggerate his closeness to Moldbug in order to enhance his own reputation. This doesn't seem plausible either; it's implausible that more than 0.1% of the Ohio electorate had any idea who Moldbug was, and at the point that you're a plausible candidate for a US Senate seat, your reputation will no longer be enhanced by being associated with a little-known blogger. A much more likely explanation is that Vance admires Moldbug and wants to encourage his followers to read him.
  - dmschulman 1y ago
    just a quick googling: https://www.newsweek.com/who-curtis-yarvin-conservative-linked-jd-vance-wants-monarchy-2017221 https://www.newsweek.com/who-curtis-yarvin-conservative-link...
  - rstuart4133 1y ago
    The original version of this article has references, including some to Vance's fascination with Yarvin: https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-curtis-yarvins-blueprint-of-a-ceo-led-american-monarchy-what-is-technological-fascism-256202 https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-c...
thomastjeffery 1y ago
engagement That's the only thing they value anymore.
mikrl 1y ago
My philosophical excursions eventually led me to his writings, but I never found what I read to be inspiring or substantial. Pretty much like Ayn Rand in that respect. Like a precocious undergrad who just discovered set theory and thinks he’s king of the… uhh sovereign corporation? Lots of literary references though. Borges, of course gave him Urbit/Tlon[0], and wrote some racially spicy stuff in his day. Pretty sure Nock is a reference to a controversial libertarian thinker[1]. I bet you could find more anti-Semitic, pro-slavery and anti-democratic Easter eggs if you looked. Clearly though, in person he managed to rub elbows with some pretty influential people… also like Ms Rand. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Luis_Borges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Luis_Borges [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock
- unsigner 1y ago
  you're not wrong about most of this, but anti-semitic? he's very openly Jewish
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Pockets of self-hating minorities most certainly exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National...
  - mikrl 1y ago
    I don’t claim to understand, but it’s still a theme. Maybe it’s an elite vs mass culture anti-semitism? Lots of internalized hatred among ‘bougie’ white and black people towards their respective poor strata; why would a Jewish person interested in reactionary politics spare the normies who, on the whole, abhor it?
  - n4r9 1y ago
    His father was Jewish but his mother is said to be a Protestant. He doesn't describe himself as Jewish as far as I can see.
    - 1y ago
indoordin0saur 1y ago
Because existing political theory has clearly failed us. People are interested in what else is out there, even if they aren't going to adopt it themselves.
rstuart4133 1y ago
Wild guess. As far as I can tell this was the first such article: https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-curtis-yarvins-blueprint-of-a-ceo-led-american-monarchy-what-is-technological-fascism-256202 https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-c... I posted it here, but it didn't attract much interest here or elsewhere from what I can tell. But as you can see it had interesting things to say. Those who make money from peddling words saw an opportunity, re-wrote and posted it as their own work. It's grubby process in some ways, but looking at it holistically, it's not a bad outcome. The meme has gotten the interest I think deserved, even it's creator didn't.

Because the folks in power are suddenly endorsing them?

Because the Vice President of the US is a devotee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_1#%E2%80%9CNeoreactionary_allegations%E2%80%9D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_1#%E2%80... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_2#Political_Views_/philosophy_in_Lead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_2#Politi...

nailer 1y ago
Can you post direct links to actual references, rather than Wikipedia talk pages?
- kragen 1y ago
  That's a perfectly reasonable request, but I didn't have them. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/15/jd-vance-55-things-trump-vp-00167882 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/15/jd-vance-5... is one, I guess. Aha, https://unherd.com/2024/11/j-d-vance-de-facto-prince-of-the-maga-movement/ https://unherd.com/2024/11/j-d-vance-de-facto-prince-of-the-... says, > Vance has described himself as a “reactionary” at war with the “regime”. He drops casual references to his personal friend Curtis Yarvin, and he’s fond of delivering thunderous pronouncements like “the universities are the enemy” (the title of a 2021 speech) and “fire every single mid-level bureaucrat” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_JD_Vance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_JD_Vanc... looks like the jackpot, though, leading to https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/18/jd-vance-world-view-sources-00168984 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/18/jd-vance-w...: > Vance has said he considers Yarvin a friend and has cited his writings in connection with his plan to fire a significant number of civil servants during a potential second Trump administration. “There’s this guy Curtis Yarvin, who has written about some of these things,” Vance said on a conservative podcast in 2021, adding: “I think Trump is going to run again in 2024 [and] I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people.” Which links to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMq1ZEcyztY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMq1ZEcyztY. And https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right... is entitled, "What Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance, and others are learning from Curtis Yarvin and the New Right,": > Yarvin had given people a way to articulate a notion that somehow felt subversive to say out loud in America—that history was headed in the wrong direction. “Somebody said something earlier that captured it for me,” [Yarvin's girlfriend] Laurenson said, just before they had to leave to go to a slightly hush-hush private dinner with Vance and a few others. “They said, ‘You can be here and know you’re not alone.’” (...) > “So there’s this guy Curtis Yarvin, who has written about some of these things,” Vance said. Murphy chortled knowingly. “So one [option] is to basically accept that this entire thing is going to fall in on itself,” Vance went on. “And so the task of conservatives right now is to preserve as much as can be preserved,” waiting for the “inevitable collapse” of the current order.
  - animal_spirits 1y ago
    Yarvin stated in an interview that he barely knows Vance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcSil8NeQq8&ab_channel=TheInterview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcSil8NeQq8&ab_channel=TheIn...
    - kragen 1y ago
      I'm sure that's true; a common fate for popular authors is that they barely know many of their readers and don't know other readers at all.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      To contextualize that claim, I'd quote the article: > "'How dangerous is it that we are being linked?' Thiel wrote to Yarvin in 2014. “One reassuring thought: one of our hidden advantages is that these people”—social-justice warriors—'wouldn’t believe in a conspiracy if it hit them over the head (this is perhaps the best measure of the decline of the Left). Linkages make them sound really crazy, and they kinda know it.'"
      - kragen 1y ago
        In this context, three years ago, Vance was describing Yarvin as his "good friend" (when he was campaigning for a seat in the US Senate, which he won), while four months ago, Yarvin is saying he barely knows Vance. If you're suggesting that the apparent discrepancy is a result of strategic dishonesty for reputation preservation, that would mean that either: 1. Yarvin wants to distance himself from Vance because he fears reputational damage from being associated with the US Vice President. (But from other evidence, cited in https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/moldbug-sold-out https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/moldbug-sold-out, this seems implausible.) 2. Vance wanted to exaggerate his closeness to Moldbug in order to enhance his own reputation. This doesn't seem plausible either; it's implausible that more than 0.1% of the Ohio electorate had any idea who Moldbug was, and at the point that you're a plausible candidate for a US Senate seat, your reputation will no longer be enhanced by being associated with a little-known blogger. A much more likely explanation is that Vance admires Moldbug and wants to encourage his followers to read him.
- dmschulman 1y ago
  just a quick googling: https://www.newsweek.com/who-curtis-yarvin-conservative-linked-jd-vance-wants-monarchy-2017221 https://www.newsweek.com/who-curtis-yarvin-conservative-link...
- rstuart4133 1y ago
  The original version of this article has references, including some to Vance's fascination with Yarvin: https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-curtis-yarvins-blueprint-of-a-ceo-led-american-monarchy-what-is-technological-fascism-256202 https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-c...

thomastjeffery 1y ago

engagement That's the only thing they value anymore.

mikrl 1y ago

My philosophical excursions eventually led me to his writings, but I never found what I read to be inspiring or substantial. Pretty much like Ayn Rand in that respect. Like a precocious undergrad who just discovered set theory and thinks he’s king of the… uhh sovereign corporation? Lots of literary references though. Borges, of course gave him Urbit/Tlon[0], and wrote some racially spicy stuff in his day. Pretty sure Nock is a reference to a controversial libertarian thinker[1]. I bet you could find more anti-Semitic, pro-slavery and anti-democratic Easter eggs if you looked. Clearly though, in person he managed to rub elbows with some pretty influential people… also like Ms Rand. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Luis_Borges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Luis_Borges [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock

unsigner 1y ago
you're not wrong about most of this, but anti-semitic? he's very openly Jewish
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Pockets of self-hating minorities most certainly exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National...
- mikrl 1y ago
  I don’t claim to understand, but it’s still a theme. Maybe it’s an elite vs mass culture anti-semitism? Lots of internalized hatred among ‘bougie’ white and black people towards their respective poor strata; why would a Jewish person interested in reactionary politics spare the normies who, on the whole, abhor it?
- n4r9 1y ago
  His father was Jewish but his mother is said to be a Protestant. He doesn't describe himself as Jewish as far as I can see.
  - 1y ago

indoordin0saur 1y ago

Because existing political theory has clearly failed us. People are interested in what else is out there, even if they aren't going to adopt it themselves.

rstuart4133 1y ago

Wild guess. As far as I can tell this was the first such article: https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-curtis-yarvins-blueprint-of-a-ceo-led-american-monarchy-what-is-technological-fascism-256202 https://theconversation.com/friday-essay-trumps-reign-fits-c... I posted it here, but it didn't attract much interest here or elsewhere from what I can tell. But as you can see it had interesting things to say. Those who make money from peddling words saw an opportunity, re-wrote and posted it as their own work. It's grubby process in some ways, but looking at it holistically, it's not a bad outcome. The meme has gotten the interest I think deserved, even it's creator didn't.