6 ms·

Authy corrupted my 2FA backup and all I got was this lousy blogpost

25 points by CameronBanga 1y ago

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jiveturkey 1y ago
buried lede IMO > Authy was sold to Twillo in 2015
codalan 1y ago
Just got off Authy. They've done everything to trap customers into their broken platform, primarily by never allowing the user to export their tokens, either to file, or to another MFA application. They also stopped supporting their desktop app, forcing users back onto a single point of failure: the mobile app. If Twilio isn't going to support Authy in good faith, they should stop holding their remaining users hostage.
- CameronBanga 1y ago
  I should have been smarter and thought about looking at export sooner, it wasn't until I had this issue that I dug in and realized how bad it was.
- foxyv 1y ago
  Most 2FA apps don't allow export for security reasons. I usually just re-generate all my TOTP keys manually. It's terribly painful, but I used to do it with every phone upgrade.
  - ValentineC 1y ago
    "Security reasons" is pretty insane, considering how easy it is to lose access to a good number of accounts if any 2FA app breaks from a bad update. Google Authenticator has done this before too, way back in 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760
    - AStonesThrow 1y ago
      It is indeed the very epitome of sanity, if you simply consider that the codes are secrets, and this entire practice is derived from having hardware dongles with secure enclaves, where secrets go in but never come out. It is the utmost in security when this one-way relationship is observed. The ability to export secrets is an unfortunate compromise which vendors make for consumer markets. The MFA apps were not designed for exportability. If you own any Yubikeys you will know this. The whole idea is that this factor is "something you have", in other words, possession of the item containing your secret. An exported secret is no longer a secret, no longer something you have; it's just another password you're shuffling around. The reason that you don't lose access to accounts when losing your MFA apps is that you took down the emergency backup codes and you committed them to paper, or some other durable medium, in a place where they can easily be accessed during a crisis. You did this scrupulously with each MFA activation, didn't you? Didn't you?
      - codalan 1y ago
        In an ideal world, I'd just use Yubikeys for everything. The problem is that it's not universally supported (or only supports a limited number of keys), so now I have a hodgepodge of 2FA app or Yubikeys or, even worse, phone/email 2FA. The great thing about Yubikeys is that I can associate backup keys for accounts (when they are supported), so if I lose one key, I can deactivate the lost key and use a backup key in its place. With heavily locked-down 2FA apps, I have to hope I can do a full recovery on a new device, or go through the recovery code process, or start all over again w/ new 2FA codes. If I'm lucky, the app allowed me to have it installed onto a backup device. It's way more complicated that just swapping in a new Yubikey.
      - ValentineC 1y ago
        > The reason that you don't lose access to accounts when losing your MFA apps is that you took down the emergency backup codes and you committed them to paper, or some other durable medium, in a place where they can easily be accessed during a crisis. You did this scrupulously with each MFA activation, didn't you? Didn't you? Not all TOTP implementations, especially indie PHP websites, are robust enough to have implemented backup codes.
  - codalan 1y ago
    It's only a security issue if you don't secure the cloud storage that's used for backups. Google Authenticator and some other 2FA apps allow the user to export their tokens to other apps so you don't need to redo TOTP on every website. The most secure method is to only have tokens on the 2FA device and to avoid using TOTP backup/restore altogether (or manually copy the tokens on a secondary 2FA device). It's a tradeoff between security vs. convenience.
    - foxyv 1y ago
      Yeah, the iron triangle of security, convenience, and privacy rears it's ugly head again.
    - WorldMaker 1y ago
      I think Microsoft Authenticator is the smartest right now because it's a "two-cloud" solution partly out of necessity, but also that seems a trustworthy architecture more generally. Since almost no one's phone runs Windows anymore, the raw app data backups "naturally" go to either iCloud or Google Drive. Then Microsoft keeps other (HSM) decryption keys in OneDrive. The threat model requires compromises of two clouds, so Microsoft Authenticator can be way more generous on how often and easily it backs up. It's an interesting point in the security vs. convenience tradeoff.
nikolay 1y ago
Authy did this with me years ago, too, destroyed my tokens, I had different lists of tokens on different devices, too - that's why I kept an old phone as it had some of my accounts in there. Do not touch that steamy pile even with a 10-foot pole! It's unfortunately that some providers recognized by your phone number that you have Authy and for you to use it!
rubatuga 1y ago
It's pretty obvious that you should be backing up the actual TOTP secrets not relying on an app to manage it. I use 2FAS Auth which allows export. The other alternative is to use multiple devices for each 2FA account (the original intent?)
dehrmann 1y ago
I thought we all moved to Bitwarden a decade ago?
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
tl;dr > Much to my surprise, when checking the App Store page, I saw that an update to the app had been approved by Apple only 14 minutes prior. I downloaded the update, tapped upon one of the previously "locked" items, and entered my backup password. Boom, the previously locked 2FA codes were now unlocked and restored, ready for use.
- subscribed 1y ago
  I think you missed that part where they subsequently tried to gaslight the user again and told him to do the thing he explained in the ticket he can't. Or what is the purpose of your comment? :)
ValentineC 1y ago
Google Authenticator did this to me once before, way back in 2013 [1]. After that, it was vaults that were easily exportable and backed up all the way (like most password managers). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760
bonki 1y ago
I use KeePass as main TOTP app but migrated from Authy to Aegis (open source, great app) years ago which I use as sort of secondary backup, which also allows you to create backups and import/export data. I sync those off my phone using Syncthing. There is absolutely zero reason to use Authy for standard TOTP these days.
subscribed 1y ago
If not for a backup on the very old, insecure phone, Authy would cut me off from my codes. They refuse to start the app on GrapheneOS literally because they cannot be arsed, offloading the claim of security of the handset to Google (which says an old handset not patched in the last 8 years is secure, but the most recent, best patched OS is not). When the shit hit the fan Authy even removed the way to export the seeds from the desktop version of the app. Big FU to customers. Never again.
alyandon 1y ago
I am so glad I stopped using Authy and (painfully via the desktop extension and some hacking to get my TOTP keys) migrated to Aegis. I eventually moved from Aegis to keeping everything in Bitwarden + self-hosted Vaultwarden.
throwaway230ss 1y ago
I switched to Ente Auth back when Twilio screwed ppl over by eliminating the desktop application. Literally everything about Ente Auth has a better experience than Authy ever was, even before the incident. Highly recommended by a highly satisfied user.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
Tarsnap should partner with Apple and Google to offer a per-app minimal important data backup API/service to offer revisioned backups (not just replication) of critical data. This is something Tarsnap could offer app developers as an SDK at first, but then gather momentum to be integrated into mobile/dekstop OSes.

25 points by CameronBanga 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jiveturkey 1y ago

buried lede IMO > Authy was sold to Twillo in 2015

codalan 1y ago

Just got off Authy. They've done everything to trap customers into their broken platform, primarily by never allowing the user to export their tokens, either to file, or to another MFA application. They also stopped supporting their desktop app, forcing users back onto a single point of failure: the mobile app. If Twilio isn't going to support Authy in good faith, they should stop holding their remaining users hostage.

CameronBanga 1y ago
I should have been smarter and thought about looking at export sooner, it wasn't until I had this issue that I dug in and realized how bad it was.
foxyv 1y ago
Most 2FA apps don't allow export for security reasons. I usually just re-generate all my TOTP keys manually. It's terribly painful, but I used to do it with every phone upgrade.
- ValentineC 1y ago
  "Security reasons" is pretty insane, considering how easy it is to lose access to a good number of accounts if any 2FA app breaks from a bad update. Google Authenticator has done this before too, way back in 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760
  - AStonesThrow 1y ago
    It is indeed the very epitome of sanity, if you simply consider that the codes are secrets, and this entire practice is derived from having hardware dongles with secure enclaves, where secrets go in but never come out. It is the utmost in security when this one-way relationship is observed. The ability to export secrets is an unfortunate compromise which vendors make for consumer markets. The MFA apps were not designed for exportability. If you own any Yubikeys you will know this. The whole idea is that this factor is "something you have", in other words, possession of the item containing your secret. An exported secret is no longer a secret, no longer something you have; it's just another password you're shuffling around. The reason that you don't lose access to accounts when losing your MFA apps is that you took down the emergency backup codes and you committed them to paper, or some other durable medium, in a place where they can easily be accessed during a crisis. You did this scrupulously with each MFA activation, didn't you? Didn't you?
    - codalan 1y ago
      In an ideal world, I'd just use Yubikeys for everything. The problem is that it's not universally supported (or only supports a limited number of keys), so now I have a hodgepodge of 2FA app or Yubikeys or, even worse, phone/email 2FA. The great thing about Yubikeys is that I can associate backup keys for accounts (when they are supported), so if I lose one key, I can deactivate the lost key and use a backup key in its place. With heavily locked-down 2FA apps, I have to hope I can do a full recovery on a new device, or go through the recovery code process, or start all over again w/ new 2FA codes. If I'm lucky, the app allowed me to have it installed onto a backup device. It's way more complicated that just swapping in a new Yubikey.
    - ValentineC 1y ago
      > The reason that you don't lose access to accounts when losing your MFA apps is that you took down the emergency backup codes and you committed them to paper, or some other durable medium, in a place where they can easily be accessed during a crisis. You did this scrupulously with each MFA activation, didn't you? Didn't you? Not all TOTP implementations, especially indie PHP websites, are robust enough to have implemented backup codes.
- codalan 1y ago
  It's only a security issue if you don't secure the cloud storage that's used for backups. Google Authenticator and some other 2FA apps allow the user to export their tokens to other apps so you don't need to redo TOTP on every website. The most secure method is to only have tokens on the 2FA device and to avoid using TOTP backup/restore altogether (or manually copy the tokens on a secondary 2FA device). It's a tradeoff between security vs. convenience.
  - foxyv 1y ago
    Yeah, the iron triangle of security, convenience, and privacy rears it's ugly head again.
  - WorldMaker 1y ago
    I think Microsoft Authenticator is the smartest right now because it's a "two-cloud" solution partly out of necessity, but also that seems a trustworthy architecture more generally. Since almost no one's phone runs Windows anymore, the raw app data backups "naturally" go to either iCloud or Google Drive. Then Microsoft keeps other (HSM) decryption keys in OneDrive. The threat model requires compromises of two clouds, so Microsoft Authenticator can be way more generous on how often and easily it backs up. It's an interesting point in the security vs. convenience tradeoff.

nikolay 1y ago

Authy did this with me years ago, too, destroyed my tokens, I had different lists of tokens on different devices, too - that's why I kept an old phone as it had some of my accounts in there. Do not touch that steamy pile even with a 10-foot pole! It's unfortunately that some providers recognized by your phone number that you have Authy and for you to use it!

rubatuga 1y ago

It's pretty obvious that you should be backing up the actual TOTP secrets not relying on an app to manage it. I use 2FAS Auth which allows export. The other alternative is to use multiple devices for each 2FA account (the original intent?)

dehrmann 1y ago

I thought we all moved to Bitwarden a decade ago?

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

tl;dr > Much to my surprise, when checking the App Store page, I saw that an update to the app had been approved by Apple only 14 minutes prior. I downloaded the update, tapped upon one of the previously "locked" items, and entered my backup password. Boom, the previously locked 2FA codes were now unlocked and restored, ready for use.

subscribed 1y ago
I think you missed that part where they subsequently tried to gaslight the user again and told him to do the thing he explained in the ticket he can't. Or what is the purpose of your comment? :)

ValentineC 1y ago

Google Authenticator did this to me once before, way back in 2013 [1]. After that, it was vaults that were easily exportable and backed up all the way (like most password managers). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325760

bonki 1y ago

I use KeePass as main TOTP app but migrated from Authy to Aegis (open source, great app) years ago which I use as sort of secondary backup, which also allows you to create backups and import/export data. I sync those off my phone using Syncthing. There is absolutely zero reason to use Authy for standard TOTP these days.

subscribed 1y ago

If not for a backup on the very old, insecure phone, Authy would cut me off from my codes. They refuse to start the app on GrapheneOS literally because they cannot be arsed, offloading the claim of security of the handset to Google (which says an old handset not patched in the last 8 years is secure, but the most recent, best patched OS is not). When the shit hit the fan Authy even removed the way to export the seeds from the desktop version of the app. Big FU to customers. Never again.

alyandon 1y ago

I am so glad I stopped using Authy and (painfully via the desktop extension and some hacking to get my TOTP keys) migrated to Aegis. I eventually moved from Aegis to keeping everything in Bitwarden + self-hosted Vaultwarden.

throwaway230ss 1y ago

I switched to Ente Auth back when Twilio screwed ppl over by eliminating the desktop application. Literally everything about Ente Auth has a better experience than Authy ever was, even before the incident. Highly recommended by a highly satisfied user.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Tarsnap should partner with Apple and Google to offer a per-app minimal important data backup API/service to offer revisioned backups (not just replication) of critical data. This is something Tarsnap could offer app developers as an SDK at first, but then gather momentum to be integrated into mobile/dekstop OSes.