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Or the Protestant work ethic? I didn’t think this needed a new explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P

by dade_ 1y ago

Or the Protestant work ethic? I didn’t think this needed a new explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

graemep 1y ago
I think there are several weakneses in the Protestant work ethic as an explanation. 1. why is it directed at making money rather serving society? 2. Why does it glorify the rich rather than the "lowly workman" mentioned in the intro to your wikipedia link? 3. lots of evidence against it The first two of these are even less convincing given that background of a religion that condemns the accumulation of wealth ("eye of a needle" etc.) and literally worships a "lowly workman". As for evidence, this section of the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic#Criticis...
- betterThanTexas 1y ago
  > why is it directed at making money rather serving society i think this particular phenomenon is rooted in calvinism, particularly in North America, and calvinists hated humanity. It also wouldn't surprise me if the protestants coming over here normally prone to social responsibility (eg some lutherans) were less willing to show up for their community than those in the old world.
- valiant55 1y ago
  As a former Christian coming of age in the early 2000s there was a popular IP called "Left Behind" about the Rapture. I always thought the concept of the anti-christ was ridiculously absurd. That someone could convince Christ's followers to basically believe the opposite of the Gospel. After witnessing the rise of 45/7 and the complete bamboozling of my deeply Christian extended family I no longer consider it ridiculous. All that to say I'm not sure it really matters what exactly was written in the Bible because clearly a lot of the supposed followers of Christ never read it.
  - foobarbecue 1y ago
    What is 45/7 ? By the way, I highly recommend all of nonstampcollector's videos! https://youtu.be/7gvv_UM7CYg?si=Yer3KeaJZs7FQ03s https://youtu.be/7gvv_UM7CYg?si=Yer3KeaJZs7FQ03s
    - dundarious 1y ago
      US President number 45 and 47, i.e., Trump.
  - graemep 1y ago
    What is an IP? Also, I think its clear that some of this predates modern American evangelical Christianity, and some lies in secular values. > That someone could convince Christ's followers to basically believe the opposite of the Gospel. There are a number of historical examples. Most recently prosperity gospel and Positive Christianity? > All that to say I'm not sure it really matters what exactly was written in the Bible because clearly a lot of the supposed followers of Christ never read it. Often the ones who place the most importance on the Bible alone, and the most likely to be literalists! I think that is the root of it, because read as a "book" rather than a collection of documents, that exists in multiple versions, subject to disputes about wording and translation, each document written within a cultural (sometimes even personal) context, you can make it mean whatever you want to.
    - valiant55 1y ago
      Intellectual Property, I believe it started as a book series but had movies, shows and I'm sure other media as well.
      - graemep 1y ago
        I am familiar with the did not think that fit the context! I was expecting something religious rather than a general term.
    - erikerikson 1y ago
foobarbecue 1y ago
right, a.k.a "European Miracle" . I had classes about this (racist and largely debunked) concept in undergraduate Geography. But the link above is a review of a book that presumably aims to take existing research further.
Hilift 1y ago
> Weber also argued that the Protestant work ethic influenced the creation of capitalism An alternative explanation is for the first 140 years of the US, "Protestants" were the "people that did the work". Catholicism was illegal until the states re-wrote their constitutions/laws after the revolution (or ratification of the First Amendment, which ever came first). Also, there wasn't anything to do but work. If you wanted a house, you cleared land and built it. 50% of early European settlers were indentured servants. Oh and there wasn't any money or banks. Tobacco was the currency (in Maryland/Virginia). The only business partner was the UK, that managed the colonies as businesses. The entrepreneurial part was the Crown getting shareholders to foot the bill for provisions for the colonies. Shares in Virginia were sold on the London Stock Exchange. Maryland had a sole proprietor that funded the infrastructure build out.
- ashoeafoot 1y ago
  Its more protestant/catholic structures create legal structures/institues that then form into a modern state and accidentally support the mechanisms that secularize society and themselves. The main component is driving sexual others into social service contract cults while severing ties to clan/family. Source:
  - lurk2 1y ago
    > The main component is driving sexual others into social service contract cults while severing ties to clan/family. The implication being homo- and asexuals join the clergy because it obviates the expectation that they will marry? How does this lead to secularization? Protestantism lacks a clerical tradition (reverends and ministers can still get married, and there are no monasteries to join), so how does your theory apply there?
    - ashoeafoot 1y ago
      It produces church bureaucracy which becomes state bureaucracy , the judge looks like a priest for a reason.
dataviz1000 1y ago
For me, an American, the work ethic comes from reading Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography after being inspired by a passage found in an American Literature textbook in 10th grade. [0] edit: Of all the different philosophies a young person can subscribe to, entering in the middle of my life, I'm lucky to have chosen one of the better ones. I remember at the time really wanted to embrace an identity of being American and here is a founding father who helped draft the Declaration of Independence and signed the Constitution who was born and raised with the institution of slavery owning slaves himself and evolving into an outspoken anti-slavery advocate working to abolish the practice. That is what it means to be an American, to grow, change, and become better, just. [0] https://fs.blog/the-thirteen-virtues/ https://fs.blog/the-thirteen-virtues/
- thimkerbell 1y ago
  Nice. On the virtue of silence: "in conversation [knowledge is] obtain’d rather by the use of the ears than of the tongue, ..."
  - dataviz1000 1y ago
    > My list of virtues contain’d at first but twelve; but a Quaker friend having kindly informed me that I was generally thought proud; that my pride show’d itself frequently in conversation; that I was not content with being in the right when discussing any point, but was overbearing, and rather insolent, of which he convinc’d me by mentioning several instances; I determined endeavouring to cure myself, if I could, of this vice or folly among the rest, and I added Humility to my list, giving an extensive meaning to the word. > I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the reality of this virtue, but I had a good deal with regard to the appearance of it. (I alway laugh at this because to be truly humble a person can not boast of being virtuous therefore can't boast of being humble which creates a paradox.)
  - sseagull 1y ago
    As a high school teacher would say: “The good Lord gave you two eyes, two ears, but only one mouth”
  - 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

by dade_ 1y ago

Or the Protestant work ethic? I didn’t think this needed a new explanation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

graemep 1y ago

I think there are several weakneses in the Protestant work ethic as an explanation. 1. why is it directed at making money rather serving society? 2. Why does it glorify the rich rather than the "lowly workman" mentioned in the intro to your wikipedia link? 3. lots of evidence against it The first two of these are even less convincing given that background of a religion that condemns the accumulation of wealth ("eye of a needle" etc.) and literally worships a "lowly workman". As for evidence, this section of the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic#Criticis...

betterThanTexas 1y ago
> why is it directed at making money rather serving society i think this particular phenomenon is rooted in calvinism, particularly in North America, and calvinists hated humanity. It also wouldn't surprise me if the protestants coming over here normally prone to social responsibility (eg some lutherans) were less willing to show up for their community than those in the old world.
valiant55 1y ago
As a former Christian coming of age in the early 2000s there was a popular IP called "Left Behind" about the Rapture. I always thought the concept of the anti-christ was ridiculously absurd. That someone could convince Christ's followers to basically believe the opposite of the Gospel. After witnessing the rise of 45/7 and the complete bamboozling of my deeply Christian extended family I no longer consider it ridiculous. All that to say I'm not sure it really matters what exactly was written in the Bible because clearly a lot of the supposed followers of Christ never read it.
- foobarbecue 1y ago
  What is 45/7 ? By the way, I highly recommend all of nonstampcollector's videos! https://youtu.be/7gvv_UM7CYg?si=Yer3KeaJZs7FQ03s https://youtu.be/7gvv_UM7CYg?si=Yer3KeaJZs7FQ03s
  - dundarious 1y ago
    US President number 45 and 47, i.e., Trump.
- graemep 1y ago
  What is an IP? Also, I think its clear that some of this predates modern American evangelical Christianity, and some lies in secular values. > That someone could convince Christ's followers to basically believe the opposite of the Gospel. There are a number of historical examples. Most recently prosperity gospel and Positive Christianity? > All that to say I'm not sure it really matters what exactly was written in the Bible because clearly a lot of the supposed followers of Christ never read it. Often the ones who place the most importance on the Bible alone, and the most likely to be literalists! I think that is the root of it, because read as a "book" rather than a collection of documents, that exists in multiple versions, subject to disputes about wording and translation, each document written within a cultural (sometimes even personal) context, you can make it mean whatever you want to.
  - valiant55 1y ago
    Intellectual Property, I believe it started as a book series but had movies, shows and I'm sure other media as well.
    - graemep 1y ago
      I am familiar with the did not think that fit the context! I was expecting something religious rather than a general term.
  - erikerikson 1y ago

foobarbecue 1y ago

right, a.k.a "European Miracle" . I had classes about this (racist and largely debunked) concept in undergraduate Geography. But the link above is a review of a book that presumably aims to take existing research further.

Hilift 1y ago

> Weber also argued that the Protestant work ethic influenced the creation of capitalism An alternative explanation is for the first 140 years of the US, "Protestants" were the "people that did the work". Catholicism was illegal until the states re-wrote their constitutions/laws after the revolution (or ratification of the First Amendment, which ever came first). Also, there wasn't anything to do but work. If you wanted a house, you cleared land and built it. 50% of early European settlers were indentured servants. Oh and there wasn't any money or banks. Tobacco was the currency (in Maryland/Virginia). The only business partner was the UK, that managed the colonies as businesses. The entrepreneurial part was the Crown getting shareholders to foot the bill for provisions for the colonies. Shares in Virginia were sold on the London Stock Exchange. Maryland had a sole proprietor that funded the infrastructure build out.

ashoeafoot 1y ago
Its more protestant/catholic structures create legal structures/institues that then form into a modern state and accidentally support the mechanisms that secularize society and themselves. The main component is driving sexual others into social service contract cults while severing ties to clan/family. Source:
- lurk2 1y ago
  > The main component is driving sexual others into social service contract cults while severing ties to clan/family. The implication being homo- and asexuals join the clergy because it obviates the expectation that they will marry? How does this lead to secularization? Protestantism lacks a clerical tradition (reverends and ministers can still get married, and there are no monasteries to join), so how does your theory apply there?
  - ashoeafoot 1y ago
    It produces church bureaucracy which becomes state bureaucracy , the judge looks like a priest for a reason.

dataviz1000 1y ago

For me, an American, the work ethic comes from reading Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography after being inspired by a passage found in an American Literature textbook in 10th grade. [0] edit: Of all the different philosophies a young person can subscribe to, entering in the middle of my life, I'm lucky to have chosen one of the better ones. I remember at the time really wanted to embrace an identity of being American and here is a founding father who helped draft the Declaration of Independence and signed the Constitution who was born and raised with the institution of slavery owning slaves himself and evolving into an outspoken anti-slavery advocate working to abolish the practice. That is what it means to be an American, to grow, change, and become better, just. [0] https://fs.blog/the-thirteen-virtues/ https://fs.blog/the-thirteen-virtues/

thimkerbell 1y ago
Nice. On the virtue of silence: "in conversation [knowledge is] obtain’d rather by the use of the ears than of the tongue, ..."
- dataviz1000 1y ago
  > My list of virtues contain’d at first but twelve; but a Quaker friend having kindly informed me that I was generally thought proud; that my pride show’d itself frequently in conversation; that I was not content with being in the right when discussing any point, but was overbearing, and rather insolent, of which he convinc’d me by mentioning several instances; I determined endeavouring to cure myself, if I could, of this vice or folly among the rest, and I added Humility to my list, giving an extensive meaning to the word. > I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the reality of this virtue, but I had a good deal with regard to the appearance of it. (I alway laugh at this because to be truly humble a person can not boast of being virtuous therefore can't boast of being humble which creates a paradox.)
- sseagull 1y ago
  As a high school teacher would say: “The good Lord gave you two eyes, two ears, but only one mouth”
- 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]