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I'm a foreigner living in the EU for many years, here's my 2 cents. For over a year, I was locked out of financial services due to my inability to pass KYC. Th
by neiman 1y ago
I'm a foreigner living in the EU for many years, here's my 2 cents.
For over a year, I was locked out of financial services due to my inability to pass KYC. The reason was that I had already left one country, but was still in the process of getting a residency visa in another. During the process, I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions.
So, no wonder I'm bitter about KYC and AML.
Regarding privacy, I appreciate the EU's effort, but I also feel they focus too much on the legal side and not enough on the implementation side of it.
My ID was photocopied at almost every accommodation I visited in the last decade. I have no way to make private digital payments, and even offline cash is not being promoted.
At least once, my private financial record was accessed by a 3rd party that used it against me. But I'm not the kind of person who would go into a legal battle. I'm the kind of person who uses technology to protect his privacy. And the EU, with decisions like this, makes it very difficult for me.
I doubt banning Monero or Zcash would prevent criminals from tax evasion. They'll find other ways. So, as often happens, "Locks keep honest people honest".
- soco 1y agoI assume there will never be any implementation side to focus on, if there's no legal side to push for it. Because as we can clearly see around us, the tech boys don't give a zit on your accesses and privacy and rights, so they have to be pushed to care.
- neiman 1y agoThere are plenty of civil organizations and hackerspaces in Europe that focus on such things, not to mention academic groups.
- tpm 1y ago> I'm allowed to live in this country, but I have no ability to prove it to any financial institutions. That is very strange, because you should be able to get a temporary residence certificate (whatever it's called in your respective country) and thus get an account with if not all then at least most banks.
- egorfine 1y agoI'm in the same position as the GP. Impossible, because EU bureaucracy sometimes yield kafkaesque deadlocks. For example, some EU countries stated that their permits given to ukrainians are to be considered valid past the printed expiration date and thus stopped producing new plastic for them. Now, good luck finding any KYC provider that will accept that. Or any KYC provider that accepts printed Poland's TPS. Or any provider that doesn't chuckle on a set of documents, each of which is from a different country (like me). Etc, etc. KYC is way, way more complex than it seems. Essentially, complete remote KYC is simply impossible.
- tpm 1y agoMaybe this is a dumb question, but I am trying to understand this situation. There are still some physical bank branches and I assume at least some banks will open an account for you with that TPS if you visit a branch. Is that not correct? That way you would have access to at least some financial services, if not those where as you write (remote) KYC is needed.
- neiman 1y agoI tried with one physical bank, and they refused; the expat forums said it's the same with all, though I didn't verify myself tbh. The problem is that the only thing you get is a stamp in your passport saying you applied for a temporary residence permit (including the request number). The border control people can then (I guess) use this number to verify that your case is still pending, so you're legal in the country. But since no one else can, you get no services. [Edit: I should add that my main problem was with other financial services, not a bank, since I could use my existing bank accounts from another country. So maybe if I'd make enough effort, I would be able to open a physical bank account, but this was not the main problem for me]
- alexey-salmin 1y agoOut of curiosity, which country is this? My experience is quite similar in France (except that I tried more than one physical bank).
- scoofy 1y ago>I doubt banning Monero or Zcash would prevent criminals from tax evasion. They'll find other ways. So, as often happens, "Locks keep honest people honest". You realize that "locks keep honest people honest" is a reason to have locks, right? The point is that honest people will commit tax fraud if we make it easy for them to do.
- etrautmann 1y ago"honest people will commit tax fraud" wouldn't that make them dishonest by definition?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- scoofy 1y agoThe entire point of the expression is that many people will do things they shouldn't do if they are given an easy opportunity. The idea is that shame is ultimately what keeps most people in line. The vast majority of people won't commit armed robbery, but a few more will pickpocket, and more still will take the cash out of a wallet they've found before turning it in. The point of creating friction is that it's the friction that keeps most people in line. A bike lock isn't going to protect your bike from being stolen by someone who is okay with being a bike thief, but if you leave your bike out without a lock, you've just opened yourself up to having it stolen by a much, much larger portion of the population who don't see themselves as "thieves" as they commit theft. You can just look at what's happened on SF transit. SF has (intentionally) created a system where you technically don't have to scan your card to get on the bus if you have a monthly pass or use the iphone version of payment... the result is a shitload of people who would otherwise pay for the bus if you had to scan your card, and everyone knew you were cheating the system if you don't, they just don't pay now. If you make it easy for people to be bad actors, more people will be bad actors.
- neiman 1y agoYes, you're correct. I used it in the wrong way. I don't think KYC keeps people honest, I think it's just making the life of honest people uncomfortable.