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A simpler explanation is that Americans have succumbed to consumerism to such an extent that the absence of it feels enlightened. Of course the reality is just

A simpler explanation is that Americans have succumbed to consumerism to such an extent that the absence of it feels enlightened. Of course the reality is just that the US has become the axis of evil, and perhaps always was, it just had the best PR. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by belitting Asian cultures and what insights they may have, that are apparently incomprehensible as more than a trope to Americans.

monero-xmr 1y ago
America is the best because citizens can do basically whatever they want all the time. The latest complaints are people took it too far (rampant drug use, camping on sidewalks, and shitting everywhere in San Francisco, etc.). But if you want to buy a rural cabin on a beautiful mountain, it’s available, and cheap. You don’t need to go to Asia to live like a hermit.
- concerndc1tizen 1y ago
  > America Obviously America refers to the continent, so I'll use the shorthand country name "the US" instead. > is the best That may be true, but I do wonder if it was a lucky accident. What if the Irish famine hadn't happened? What if WW2 had been averted (but maybe the EU wouldn't exist...). > rural cabin That's nice, but what value is it if the forest burns down, the lake is polluted, the wild life is dead, and there's nothing left but neighboring land full of fracking wells? Glory to god.
  - monero-xmr 1y ago
    You just have no idea how incredibly enormous and empty the US is
    - concerndc1tizen 1y ago
      And yet, every viable plot of land is used for farming. Similarly, I would argue that you should not underestimate the harmful and wide-reaching effects of industry.
      - AngryData 1y ago
        Ehh US farmland usage has been dropping for many decades. That said, it is only because we are more than ever reliant upon fossil fuel derived fertilizer and over utilize a lot of arid/desert farming
      - hollerith 1y ago
        >every viable plot of land is used for farming. It is? Not in the US!
        concerndc1tizen 1y ago
        Try using Google Maps in Satellite View. You'd be hard pressed to find land that isn't used agriculturally. IIUC, the land that is unutilized or has forest, is either protected, too hilly, too dry, etc.
        hollerith 1y ago
        Consider New England, where in its early days most inhabitants consisted of farming families. Where there were farms and cow pastures, there is now mostly forest. There are a few farms remaining in New England, yes, but in general farmers consider the soil there not worth farming compared to places like Iowa and Southern Illinois (where all the land really is utilized for farming) even though in the past most the (sizeable) population of New England made a living farming. We know that most of the forest in New England is suitable for farming because there are still stone walls running through it: these wall were made of stones encountered by farmers while plowing (when the forest was farmland).
jimbokun 1y ago
> Of course the reality is just that the US has become the axis of evil, and perhaps always was, it just had the best PR. Sigh. Yes, the Soviet Union really was the worker's paradise with free, prosperous, happy people! Can we get away from the sophomoric idea the USA was ALWAYS the ONLY source of badness in the world, just because right now it's the most powerful nation in the world and also a complete mess?
- concerndc1tizen 1y ago
  I suspect that the communist project has lived under constant fear of the US, that the economy ultimately was bankrupted from having to defend itself against the US war machine. The US has waged war in virtually every country around the world, for example Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korea, which were significant threats to both Soviet and China. China has virtually been besieged since the 1950s, with Americans present in Thailand, Philippines, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. How would you feel if the Soviet installed weapons systems in Canada, Hawaii, Mexico, Greenland, and Cuba? And then started a tariff war to hopefully bankrupt your economy?
  - sepositus 1y ago
    Wasn't communism influenced heavily by being anti-capitalist? They fundamentally disagreed with the tenants that the United States stood on. Your comment, if I'm understanding it correctly, makes it look like the communists were just trying to do their own thing in their own countries and the big bad U.S came in and bullied them out of existence. I'm not defending either sides here. I'm not a Reaganot. But to think most communist regimes were not hellbent on the destruction of western capitalism would seem a bit misleading to me.
    - concerndc1tizen 1y ago
      That is fair; I think the reality is nuanced and that different opinions existed at the same time and were warring internally in the Soviet Union. In particular, IIUC, Trotsky thought that "a socialist revolution must spread internationally to succeed and cannot be confined to one nation" (OpenAI) - but he was also assassinated by Stalin's order, and the assassin was honored by Brezhnev. Stalin was assassinated as well. It's a great tragedy if they felt threatened by capitalism, and capitalism by communism, in a self-perpetuating way that could have been avoided. But I would argue that capitalism has its roots in aristocracy, imperialism, and private ownership (i.e. slavery, colonialism, and systemic exploitation), to an extent that it is fair to say that capitalism cannot co-exist with communist ideals. But yes, European countries were heavily influenced by communist ideology, which continues to shape our values today, about well-regulated free markets, fair taxation, public service, and so on, which directly threatened capitalist interests, and arguably that's why we're seeing a rise in fascism, in an attempt to remove these communist ideals. To be clear, I am confused on this matter, but I do think that the Europeans have been foolish to follow US doctrine for the last 50 years (since Reagan/Thatcher), and especially the last 10-20 years have been devastating on virtually every sector of the economy.

monero-xmr 1y ago

America is the best because citizens can do basically whatever they want all the time. The latest complaints are people took it too far (rampant drug use, camping on sidewalks, and shitting everywhere in San Francisco, etc.). But if you want to buy a rural cabin on a beautiful mountain, it’s available, and cheap. You don’t need to go to Asia to live like a hermit.

concerndc1tizen 1y ago
> America Obviously America refers to the continent, so I'll use the shorthand country name "the US" instead. > is the best That may be true, but I do wonder if it was a lucky accident. What if the Irish famine hadn't happened? What if WW2 had been averted (but maybe the EU wouldn't exist...). > rural cabin That's nice, but what value is it if the forest burns down, the lake is polluted, the wild life is dead, and there's nothing left but neighboring land full of fracking wells? Glory to god.
- monero-xmr 1y ago
  You just have no idea how incredibly enormous and empty the US is
  - concerndc1tizen 1y ago
    And yet, every viable plot of land is used for farming. Similarly, I would argue that you should not underestimate the harmful and wide-reaching effects of industry.
    - AngryData 1y ago
      Ehh US farmland usage has been dropping for many decades. That said, it is only because we are more than ever reliant upon fossil fuel derived fertilizer and over utilize a lot of arid/desert farming
    - hollerith 1y ago
      >every viable plot of land is used for farming. It is? Not in the US!
      - concerndc1tizen 1y ago
        Try using Google Maps in Satellite View. You'd be hard pressed to find land that isn't used agriculturally. IIUC, the land that is unutilized or has forest, is either protected, too hilly, too dry, etc.
        hollerith 1y ago
        Consider New England, where in its early days most inhabitants consisted of farming families. Where there were farms and cow pastures, there is now mostly forest. There are a few farms remaining in New England, yes, but in general farmers consider the soil there not worth farming compared to places like Iowa and Southern Illinois (where all the land really is utilized for farming) even though in the past most the (sizeable) population of New England made a living farming. We know that most of the forest in New England is suitable for farming because there are still stone walls running through it: these wall were made of stones encountered by farmers while plowing (when the forest was farmland).

jimbokun 1y ago

> Of course the reality is just that the US has become the axis of evil, and perhaps always was, it just had the best PR. Sigh. Yes, the Soviet Union really was the worker's paradise with free, prosperous, happy people! Can we get away from the sophomoric idea the USA was ALWAYS the ONLY source of badness in the world, just because right now it's the most powerful nation in the world and also a complete mess?

concerndc1tizen 1y ago
I suspect that the communist project has lived under constant fear of the US, that the economy ultimately was bankrupted from having to defend itself against the US war machine. The US has waged war in virtually every country around the world, for example Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korea, which were significant threats to both Soviet and China. China has virtually been besieged since the 1950s, with Americans present in Thailand, Philippines, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. How would you feel if the Soviet installed weapons systems in Canada, Hawaii, Mexico, Greenland, and Cuba? And then started a tariff war to hopefully bankrupt your economy?
- sepositus 1y ago
  Wasn't communism influenced heavily by being anti-capitalist? They fundamentally disagreed with the tenants that the United States stood on. Your comment, if I'm understanding it correctly, makes it look like the communists were just trying to do their own thing in their own countries and the big bad U.S came in and bullied them out of existence. I'm not defending either sides here. I'm not a Reaganot. But to think most communist regimes were not hellbent on the destruction of western capitalism would seem a bit misleading to me.
  - concerndc1tizen 1y ago
    That is fair; I think the reality is nuanced and that different opinions existed at the same time and were warring internally in the Soviet Union. In particular, IIUC, Trotsky thought that "a socialist revolution must spread internationally to succeed and cannot be confined to one nation" (OpenAI) - but he was also assassinated by Stalin's order, and the assassin was honored by Brezhnev. Stalin was assassinated as well. It's a great tragedy if they felt threatened by capitalism, and capitalism by communism, in a self-perpetuating way that could have been avoided. But I would argue that capitalism has its roots in aristocracy, imperialism, and private ownership (i.e. slavery, colonialism, and systemic exploitation), to an extent that it is fair to say that capitalism cannot co-exist with communist ideals. But yes, European countries were heavily influenced by communist ideology, which continues to shape our values today, about well-regulated free markets, fair taxation, public service, and so on, which directly threatened capitalist interests, and arguably that's why we're seeing a rise in fascism, in an attempt to remove these communist ideals. To be clear, I am confused on this matter, but I do think that the Europeans have been foolish to follow US doctrine for the last 50 years (since Reagan/Thatcher), and especially the last 10-20 years have been devastating on virtually every sector of the economy.