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the military gets what it wants in DC, and the pilots were too comfortable and on different radio systems (helo can’t hear airplanes and vice versa, air traffic

the military gets what it wants in DC, and the pilots were too comfortable and on different radio systems (helo can’t hear airplanes and vice versa, air traffic control is their intermediary) A disaster waiting to happen in retrospect. Similar issues at other airports like runway incursions, especially at crowded small airports like SFO and LaGuardia with antiquated runway layouts.

psunavy03 1y ago
Let's wait for the investigation to complete before we opine on what is or isn't a "disaster waiting to happen." The entire aviation system is a "disaster waiting to happen" unless you assume a baseline level of aircrew competence, and the question will be whether or not the aircrew fell victim to a systematic risk inherent in what they were doing, or whether they just screwed up. Sad to say, as a former aviator, I have seen it before where people died and families lost loved ones ultimately because of a systematic risk inherent in what they were doing, but also other times because someone flat-out just screwed up.
- tremon 1y ago
  FTA: data recently analyzed by the board revealed that National Airport was the site of at least one near collision between an airplane and a helicopter each month from 2011 to 2024 I would say that statistic in and of itself qualifies as a "disaster waiting to happen". I agree that we should wait for the full report, but I don't think the GP is using hyperbole in this case.
  - jonah 1y ago
    That line really stood out to me. One would hope that someone would realize this was a disaster waiting to happen and make changes before it actually happened.
  - goku12 1y ago
    One near collision every month (minimum) for 13 years? How is that a disaster waiting to happen, as much as it is a case of wilful criminal negligence? How many near collisions are needed for the authorities recognize that it's an unacceptable risk? How did they let this happen?
    - banannaise 1y ago
      One of the biggest challenges for the FAA et al. is preventing both individuals and organizations from developing this kind of complacency, where something extremely dangerous becomes "just how we do it here, and it's fine". Unfortunately, they don't always succeed. Every crash is a lesson learned too late. We endeavor to learn earlier than that, and when we don't, we make sure we learn in the aftermath.
- Animats 1y ago
  > Let's wait for the investigation to complete before we opine on what is or isn't a "disaster waiting to happen." Yes. The info still isn't that good. That said, allowing helicopter operations underneath a final approach path is iffy. Ops.group has a discussion.[1] [1] https://ops.group/blog/the-dangers-of-mixed-traffic/ https://ops.group/blog/the-dangers-of-mixed-traffic/
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  Relying on seeing another aircraft in the air at night is pretty much a disaster waiting to happen. You don't see aircraft at night, you see lights. And they're over a city--a gazillion lights. Thus all you really see are moving lights. But if two objects are on a steady collision path neither moves relative to the other. Thus both sets of pilots would simply have seen stationary lights, invisible against a sea of stationary lights.

psunavy03 1y ago

Let's wait for the investigation to complete before we opine on what is or isn't a "disaster waiting to happen." The entire aviation system is a "disaster waiting to happen" unless you assume a baseline level of aircrew competence, and the question will be whether or not the aircrew fell victim to a systematic risk inherent in what they were doing, or whether they just screwed up. Sad to say, as a former aviator, I have seen it before where people died and families lost loved ones ultimately because of a systematic risk inherent in what they were doing, but also other times because someone flat-out just screwed up.

tremon 1y ago
FTA: data recently analyzed by the board revealed that National Airport was the site of at least one near collision between an airplane and a helicopter each month from 2011 to 2024 I would say that statistic in and of itself qualifies as a "disaster waiting to happen". I agree that we should wait for the full report, but I don't think the GP is using hyperbole in this case.
- jonah 1y ago
  That line really stood out to me. One would hope that someone would realize this was a disaster waiting to happen and make changes before it actually happened.
- goku12 1y ago
  One near collision every month (minimum) for 13 years? How is that a disaster waiting to happen, as much as it is a case of wilful criminal negligence? How many near collisions are needed for the authorities recognize that it's an unacceptable risk? How did they let this happen?
  - banannaise 1y ago
    One of the biggest challenges for the FAA et al. is preventing both individuals and organizations from developing this kind of complacency, where something extremely dangerous becomes "just how we do it here, and it's fine". Unfortunately, they don't always succeed. Every crash is a lesson learned too late. We endeavor to learn earlier than that, and when we don't, we make sure we learn in the aftermath.
Animats 1y ago
> Let's wait for the investigation to complete before we opine on what is or isn't a "disaster waiting to happen." Yes. The info still isn't that good. That said, allowing helicopter operations underneath a final approach path is iffy. Ops.group has a discussion.[1] [1] https://ops.group/blog/the-dangers-of-mixed-traffic/ https://ops.group/blog/the-dangers-of-mixed-traffic/
LorenPechtel 1y ago
Relying on seeing another aircraft in the air at night is pretty much a disaster waiting to happen. You don't see aircraft at night, you see lights. And they're over a city--a gazillion lights. Thus all you really see are moving lights. But if two objects are on a steady collision path neither moves relative to the other. Thus both sets of pilots would simply have seen stationary lights, invisible against a sea of stationary lights.