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It's extremely difficult to avoid exposure to these plastics. I started buying "pthalate free" bath products only to learn there if the bottle that holds them i

It's extremely difficult to avoid exposure to these plastics. I started buying "pthalate free" bath products only to learn there if the bottle that holds them is plastic, then you're still getting exposed to pthalates. Most foods are exposed to these plasicizers as well, especially meats and dairy.

chneu 1y ago
It's pretty crazy how bad for us meat/dairy is in a huge variety of ways yet people hand wave away most of the issues. Antibiotics usage is still a huge issue in beef/dairy. Environmental destruction is still a huge issue in beef/dairy. Hormone exposure thru beef/dairy is still an issue. Etc. Etc.
- MarcelOlsz 1y ago
  How else am I supposed to get swole? I buy my meat from local butchers. Getting 200g of protein from vegetables and lentils and stuff would be impossible.
  - iamacyborg 1y ago
    You probably don’t need to be getting 200g of protein a day, to start with.
    - MarcelOlsz 1y ago
      I'm 6'6 and 120kg, so better safe than sorry. Are you knowledgeable about bodybuilding?
      - porkloin 1y ago
        "Need" and "want" are different things.
        MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        Right, the context being building muscle, therefore "need".
        porkloin 1y ago
        That's fine, but bodybuilding is recreational with the exception of a very small number of people who are professional bodybuilders. Human beings don't _need_ to have 200g of protein per day. Assuming you're not a professional or don't have a job where large muscle mass is an absolute requirement, the excess protein intake is something you _want_ so that you can enjoy your hobby. To be clear, you should continue to eat as much meat as you want - it's your life! There are tons of advantages to strength training and bodybuilding, and I am not trying to diminish any of that. But what I can't agree on is that it's ethical to consume that much daily protein unless you truly need it. That level of meat consumption has very real impacts - it is literally unsustainable for a significant number of people to consume excess protein entirely from meat.
        MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        I get about 80 grams from protein powder (whey), another 20 from eggs, another 20-50 from yoghurt, and another 50-60 from a chicken breast/fish (200-300g worth). I get all my eggs and meat locally as I live in the boonies. You are being deliberately obtuse assuming I get 200 grams from only meat. This would wreck my bowels. Cheers for the lecture though, I think I'll up it to 300 grams just from your comment alone. >it is literally unsustainable for a significant number of people to consume excess protein entirely from meat When the billionaires give up their profits I'll trade in my single daily unsustainable chicken breast.
        craftkiller 1y ago
        You point out that this behavior is unethical and in the same breath you say they should keep doing it. I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements, or thinking of examples of when unethical behavior should be encouraged[0]. Perhaps it should be "you *can* continue to eat as much meat as you want" instead of "you should [...]"? That way it acknowledges their agency and our inability to prevent their actions, without condoning them. [0] so far the closest I've come is "perhaps in retaliation against an earlier injustice"
      - jajko 1y ago
        You both are correct. You need tons of protein to gain and maintain that huge muscle mass when you do bodybuilding. 200 ain't even so extreme compared to many, especially in the past. The idea that such intake will not fuck you up later is naive. Due to all the healthy stuff that you do with and around weightlifting your health state is most probably stellar compared to same you not doing any sport, so you build a 'health margin' or whatever we can call it. But it still fucks you up, just different parts of the body. Unless thats how you earn money and thus have to do it, I very politely suggest moving down 2 notches in intensity (if its for women they will still adore you, if compensating for some bad childhood stuff this ain't the best solution anyway). Either add more endurance if you feel not doing enough or another sport, more endurance is anyway supremely usable in all aspects of life. But as said that's just a polite suggestion for optimizing for truly long term health.
        MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        Czesc jajko dzieki za komentarz. I used bodybuilding as a catch all but what I am really doing is doing heavy strength training alongside muay thai/grappling. Either way, still need the protein. I would like to long term focus on cardio with only basic weight lifting once I hit my strength goals, so I agree with you.
- vladms 1y ago
  I think in some countries people understand all these issues and some do change their behavior, but it takes much longer than you would assume (reference: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumption-by-type-kilograms-per-year?country=FRA~NLD~DEU~ESP~ITA~BEL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti... - note the peak consumption is in the past). On the other hand you might downplay how bad can be for some people to totally eliminating meat/dairy. I know a couple of examples that had big issues with iron deficiency due to that. Pills didn't work for years, while restarting eating for a couple of months meat fixed all their health issues. I do agree though that people eat way more than they need, but probably it is not only meat related (also sugar, carbs and others).
- BenjiWiebe 1y ago
  Antibiotic residue in milk is highly regulated, at least in the USA. When we treat a dairy cow with antibiotics (to cure an infection and save it's life) we don't/can't sell it's milk for several days after the end of the round of antibiotics.

chneu 1y ago

It's pretty crazy how bad for us meat/dairy is in a huge variety of ways yet people hand wave away most of the issues. Antibiotics usage is still a huge issue in beef/dairy. Environmental destruction is still a huge issue in beef/dairy. Hormone exposure thru beef/dairy is still an issue. Etc. Etc.

MarcelOlsz 1y ago
How else am I supposed to get swole? I buy my meat from local butchers. Getting 200g of protein from vegetables and lentils and stuff would be impossible.
- iamacyborg 1y ago
  You probably don’t need to be getting 200g of protein a day, to start with.
  - MarcelOlsz 1y ago
    I'm 6'6 and 120kg, so better safe than sorry. Are you knowledgeable about bodybuilding?
    - porkloin 1y ago
      "Need" and "want" are different things.
      - MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        Right, the context being building muscle, therefore "need".
        porkloin 1y ago
        That's fine, but bodybuilding is recreational with the exception of a very small number of people who are professional bodybuilders. Human beings don't _need_ to have 200g of protein per day. Assuming you're not a professional or don't have a job where large muscle mass is an absolute requirement, the excess protein intake is something you _want_ so that you can enjoy your hobby. To be clear, you should continue to eat as much meat as you want - it's your life! There are tons of advantages to strength training and bodybuilding, and I am not trying to diminish any of that. But what I can't agree on is that it's ethical to consume that much daily protein unless you truly need it. That level of meat consumption has very real impacts - it is literally unsustainable for a significant number of people to consume excess protein entirely from meat.
        MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        I get about 80 grams from protein powder (whey), another 20 from eggs, another 20-50 from yoghurt, and another 50-60 from a chicken breast/fish (200-300g worth). I get all my eggs and meat locally as I live in the boonies. You are being deliberately obtuse assuming I get 200 grams from only meat. This would wreck my bowels. Cheers for the lecture though, I think I'll up it to 300 grams just from your comment alone. >it is literally unsustainable for a significant number of people to consume excess protein entirely from meat When the billionaires give up their profits I'll trade in my single daily unsustainable chicken breast.
        craftkiller 1y ago
        You point out that this behavior is unethical and in the same breath you say they should keep doing it. I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements, or thinking of examples of when unethical behavior should be encouraged[0]. Perhaps it should be "you *can* continue to eat as much meat as you want" instead of "you should [...]"? That way it acknowledges their agency and our inability to prevent their actions, without condoning them. [0] so far the closest I've come is "perhaps in retaliation against an earlier injustice"
    - jajko 1y ago
      You both are correct. You need tons of protein to gain and maintain that huge muscle mass when you do bodybuilding. 200 ain't even so extreme compared to many, especially in the past. The idea that such intake will not fuck you up later is naive. Due to all the healthy stuff that you do with and around weightlifting your health state is most probably stellar compared to same you not doing any sport, so you build a 'health margin' or whatever we can call it. But it still fucks you up, just different parts of the body. Unless thats how you earn money and thus have to do it, I very politely suggest moving down 2 notches in intensity (if its for women they will still adore you, if compensating for some bad childhood stuff this ain't the best solution anyway). Either add more endurance if you feel not doing enough or another sport, more endurance is anyway supremely usable in all aspects of life. But as said that's just a polite suggestion for optimizing for truly long term health.
      - MarcelOlsz 1y ago
        Czesc jajko dzieki za komentarz. I used bodybuilding as a catch all but what I am really doing is doing heavy strength training alongside muay thai/grappling. Either way, still need the protein. I would like to long term focus on cardio with only basic weight lifting once I hit my strength goals, so I agree with you.
vladms 1y ago
I think in some countries people understand all these issues and some do change their behavior, but it takes much longer than you would assume (reference: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumption-by-type-kilograms-per-year?country=FRA~NLD~DEU~ESP~ITA~BEL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti... - note the peak consumption is in the past). On the other hand you might downplay how bad can be for some people to totally eliminating meat/dairy. I know a couple of examples that had big issues with iron deficiency due to that. Pills didn't work for years, while restarting eating for a couple of months meat fixed all their health issues. I do agree though that people eat way more than they need, but probably it is not only meat related (also sugar, carbs and others).
BenjiWiebe 1y ago
Antibiotic residue in milk is highly regulated, at least in the USA. When we treat a dairy cow with antibiotics (to cure an infection and save it's life) we don't/can't sell it's milk for several days after the end of the round of antibiotics.