7 ms·

RFK has been quite clear that autistic people are undesirables. They're collecting our personal information so that we can be imprisoned or killed.

nailer 1y ago
He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society, he is talking about the 26% of people with profound autism. Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. And in calling this "a conspiracy theory" and "some kind of eugenics purge", you seem to be intentionally downplaying the very real and very legitimate worries of autistic people, a group who has historically been subjected to eugenics purges in the past, which started using the language and rationale Kennedy espouses. If Kennedy wants to be taken seriously and with good faith, he should put autistic people and experts in charge of this effort. That he doesn't speaks volumes about his true intentions. Sorry if that sounds like a conspiracy theory to you, but autistic people like myself see the obvious parallel here and we aren't going to just be quiet and allow it to happen again.
  - nailer 1y ago
    > He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. You’re watching edited videos.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      No, this is always the defense people come up when RFK says something insane. It's not deepfake, it's not edited, he is just actually a crazy person. Yes, he truly believes HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Yes, he truly believes vaccines don't work. We should not be listening to him on anything, let alone things that actually matter. There are people living on the side of the road with more credibility and reasonableness than him. And, we will not be gaslit by his defenders who, I can only assume, are equally as insane as him.
      - nailer 1y ago
        It’s edited. Watch the full thing, he says ‘to be clear I’m not talking about (high functioning people)’ but rather a group of children who seem to have a sudden onset of autistic symptoms at two. Seriously just watch it.
    - ModernMech 1y ago
      As far as I can tell I've heard all the words from that man and his surrogates. What are the words that have been said which I have not heard, which would clear all this up?
      - nailer 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43826940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43826940
        ModernMech 1y ago
        Like I said, I've heard all those words already. They don't clear anything up. I'm asking you if there are more words I haven't heard. Here's the transcript: https://singjupost.com/rfk-jr-holds-press-conference-on-new-autism-findings-from-the-cdc/?singlepage=1 https://singjupost.com/rfk-jr-holds-press-conference-on-new-... When he speaks here he says things like: So about 25% of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet trained, and have other stereotypical features, headbanging, tactile and light sensitivities, stimming, toe-locking, et cetera. Aside from not being toilet trained, the rest of that applies to me. So am I "profoundly autistic"? I mean, maybe but at the same time I don't think that's really what he means. So you can see my confusion. Is he talking about me or isn't he? Because he's listing off things I do all the time, and calling the these features of "profound autism". He also says: "with full-blown autism, headbanging, non-verbal, non-toilet trained, stimming, toe walking, these other stereotypical features. " Again, not incredibly clear by my reading. Very broad brush being applied here. In the whole speech, he doesn't refer to autism as a "spectrum" disorder once until he's prompted by a reporter in those terms. Telling, because he clearly views autism as a binary of high/low functioning or high/low needs, which it's not. So again, painting autism with a broad brush. Then there's this: Then you have to ask yourself, why is it so pervasive? Why has it been thrown up against us for so many years? Clearly, there are industries. This is coming from an environmental toxin. Somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food. It’s to their benefit to normalize it, to say, this is all normal. It’s always been here. Yeah, so let me get this straight, RFK says this and yet it's the autism community who you think are the conspiracy theorists?
- dns_snek 1y ago
  > He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society Is that supposed to make it better? This distinction between autistic individuals who are productive and those who have trouble participating in society goes back to Nazi Germany where they sent the latter group to "reform camps" and "hospitals" to be murdered and eradicated. That's where the distinction of "Asperger syndrome" comes from.
  - nailer 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ModernMech 1y ago
      If you are going to 1) propose to make a list of people with autism 2) propose to send them to a concentration camp where where they will be treated Then you had better damn well be prepared to answer specifically how what you're doing is different from what the Nazis did. If you're not prepared to deal seriously and substantively with that very relevent historical precedent, you have no business proposing the registry and the camps in the first place.
      - nailer 1y ago
        > propose to send them to a concentration camp Nobody is doing that.
        ModernMech 1y ago
        This entire term so far has been one ratchet after another of "they will never do that" followed promptly by "wow, they just did that, nothing we can do about it now except deal with the fallout!" On the one hand they've proposed the autism database. On the other hand they've proposed the "wellness farms" for drug addicts. All that's left is for the right hand to start picking up what the left hand is putting down and we are there. Moreover, they have been demonstrating that they're willing to torture those they consider "subhuman". Look at how they are treating immigrants. Autistic people are used to being abused in awful ways, so when we see those immigrants being abused and abducted by the Trump administration, it's not very hard to see they would be willing to do this to autistic people. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to recognize they're all awful people who are currently unrestrained by the law and general decency. The conspiracy theory, such as it is, is this: these people look like Nazis, they sound like Nazis, and they act like Nazis, so their proposals related to autism are to be taken with a giant Nazi sized grain of salt.
- mindslight 1y ago
  > Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge. No, people in leadership positions have a duty to lead - justifying themselves and attempting to get buy in from everyone. Especially so on sensitive topics that we're societally squeamish about due to some very real historic horrors. I know the memetic field is a bit hazy from the sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs etc, but there is a huge difference when that schizophrenia is actively encouraged from the top. So this idea that we're just supposed to trust the Trump administration, when many of their actions have already been completely unhinged and senseless (eg huge tariff taxes), when Trump's last time at the helm was completely divisive and destructive, and when he's picked the most unhinged type of charlatans for his cabinet this time around? Sorry, trust needs to be earned - especially the amount required for pulling on rightfully sensitive threads - and they're not even doing the basics of attempting to.
  - nailer 1y ago
    > sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs This is exactly the same thing. In the full speech RFK makes it clear who he is and is not talking about, I’m torn on whether our leaders need to rewrite their speeches for sound bites.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      Maybe? I haven't listened to his speech directly, because I'm burnt out from having to dissect the sheer volume of dog whistles this movement relies upon. Maybe that's a civically irresponsible take, but it is extremely civically irresponsible for Trump to cause this fatigue by sowing division to create a segment of fervent support. We've had too many years of "4d chess" with everyone trying to read good intentions and coherent reasoning out of the word salad. At this point most reasonable people are only trying to read the tea leaves to know how they might have to protect themselves. And sure, RFK is not Trump. Except it's clear Trump has no concept of delegation or keeping his hands off of something. Even if RFK has the purest of motivations, it's very easy to see Trump seeing a few edgelord social media comments saying we need to send $whomever to the camps as well, noticing that the topic "drives engagement", and running away with the idea. At this point it's just generally bad to be in the crosshairs of state legibility in any way.

nailer 1y ago

He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society, he is talking about the 26% of people with profound autism. Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge.

ModernMech 1y ago
He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. And in calling this "a conspiracy theory" and "some kind of eugenics purge", you seem to be intentionally downplaying the very real and very legitimate worries of autistic people, a group who has historically been subjected to eugenics purges in the past, which started using the language and rationale Kennedy espouses. If Kennedy wants to be taken seriously and with good faith, he should put autistic people and experts in charge of this effort. That he doesn't speaks volumes about his true intentions. Sorry if that sounds like a conspiracy theory to you, but autistic people like myself see the obvious parallel here and we aren't going to just be quiet and allow it to happen again.
- nailer 1y ago
  > He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush. You’re watching edited videos.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    No, this is always the defense people come up when RFK says something insane. It's not deepfake, it's not edited, he is just actually a crazy person. Yes, he truly believes HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Yes, he truly believes vaccines don't work. We should not be listening to him on anything, let alone things that actually matter. There are people living on the side of the road with more credibility and reasonableness than him. And, we will not be gaslit by his defenders who, I can only assume, are equally as insane as him.
    - nailer 1y ago
      It’s edited. Watch the full thing, he says ‘to be clear I’m not talking about (high functioning people)’ but rather a group of children who seem to have a sudden onset of autistic symptoms at two. Seriously just watch it.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    As far as I can tell I've heard all the words from that man and his surrogates. What are the words that have been said which I have not heard, which would clear all this up?
    - nailer 1y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43826940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43826940
      - ModernMech 1y ago
        Like I said, I've heard all those words already. They don't clear anything up. I'm asking you if there are more words I haven't heard. Here's the transcript: https://singjupost.com/rfk-jr-holds-press-conference-on-new-autism-findings-from-the-cdc/?singlepage=1 https://singjupost.com/rfk-jr-holds-press-conference-on-new-... When he speaks here he says things like: So about 25% of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet trained, and have other stereotypical features, headbanging, tactile and light sensitivities, stimming, toe-locking, et cetera. Aside from not being toilet trained, the rest of that applies to me. So am I "profoundly autistic"? I mean, maybe but at the same time I don't think that's really what he means. So you can see my confusion. Is he talking about me or isn't he? Because he's listing off things I do all the time, and calling the these features of "profound autism". He also says: "with full-blown autism, headbanging, non-verbal, non-toilet trained, stimming, toe walking, these other stereotypical features. " Again, not incredibly clear by my reading. Very broad brush being applied here. In the whole speech, he doesn't refer to autism as a "spectrum" disorder once until he's prompted by a reporter in those terms. Telling, because he clearly views autism as a binary of high/low functioning or high/low needs, which it's not. So again, painting autism with a broad brush. Then there's this: Then you have to ask yourself, why is it so pervasive? Why has it been thrown up against us for so many years? Clearly, there are industries. This is coming from an environmental toxin. Somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food. It’s to their benefit to normalize it, to say, this is all normal. It’s always been here. Yeah, so let me get this straight, RFK says this and yet it's the autism community who you think are the conspiracy theorists?
dns_snek 1y ago
> He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society Is that supposed to make it better? This distinction between autistic individuals who are productive and those who have trouble participating in society goes back to Nazi Germany where they sent the latter group to "reform camps" and "hospitals" to be murdered and eradicated. That's where the distinction of "Asperger syndrome" comes from.
- nailer 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    If you are going to 1) propose to make a list of people with autism 2) propose to send them to a concentration camp where where they will be treated Then you had better damn well be prepared to answer specifically how what you're doing is different from what the Nazis did. If you're not prepared to deal seriously and substantively with that very relevent historical precedent, you have no business proposing the registry and the camps in the first place.
    - nailer 1y ago
      > propose to send them to a concentration camp Nobody is doing that.
      - ModernMech 1y ago
        This entire term so far has been one ratchet after another of "they will never do that" followed promptly by "wow, they just did that, nothing we can do about it now except deal with the fallout!" On the one hand they've proposed the autism database. On the other hand they've proposed the "wellness farms" for drug addicts. All that's left is for the right hand to start picking up what the left hand is putting down and we are there. Moreover, they have been demonstrating that they're willing to torture those they consider "subhuman". Look at how they are treating immigrants. Autistic people are used to being abused in awful ways, so when we see those immigrants being abused and abducted by the Trump administration, it's not very hard to see they would be willing to do this to autistic people. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to recognize they're all awful people who are currently unrestrained by the law and general decency. The conspiracy theory, such as it is, is this: these people look like Nazis, they sound like Nazis, and they act like Nazis, so their proposals related to autism are to be taken with a giant Nazi sized grain of salt.
mindslight 1y ago
> Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge. No, people in leadership positions have a duty to lead - justifying themselves and attempting to get buy in from everyone. Especially so on sensitive topics that we're societally squeamish about due to some very real historic horrors. I know the memetic field is a bit hazy from the sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs etc, but there is a huge difference when that schizophrenia is actively encouraged from the top. So this idea that we're just supposed to trust the Trump administration, when many of their actions have already been completely unhinged and senseless (eg huge tariff taxes), when Trump's last time at the helm was completely divisive and destructive, and when he's picked the most unhinged type of charlatans for his cabinet this time around? Sorry, trust needs to be earned - especially the amount required for pulling on rightfully sensitive threads - and they're not even doing the basics of attempting to.
- nailer 1y ago
  > sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs This is exactly the same thing. In the full speech RFK makes it clear who he is and is not talking about, I’m torn on whether our leaders need to rewrite their speeches for sound bites.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    Maybe? I haven't listened to his speech directly, because I'm burnt out from having to dissect the sheer volume of dog whistles this movement relies upon. Maybe that's a civically irresponsible take, but it is extremely civically irresponsible for Trump to cause this fatigue by sowing division to create a segment of fervent support. We've had too many years of "4d chess" with everyone trying to read good intentions and coherent reasoning out of the word salad. At this point most reasonable people are only trying to read the tea leaves to know how they might have to protect themselves. And sure, RFK is not Trump. Except it's clear Trump has no concept of delegation or keeping his hands off of something. Even if RFK has the purest of motivations, it's very easy to see Trump seeing a few edgelord social media comments saying we need to send $whomever to the camps as well, noticing that the topic "drives engagement", and running away with the idea. At this point it's just generally bad to be in the crosshairs of state legibility in any way.