7 ms·

Losing focus as a skill is something I see with every batch of new students. It’s not just LLMs, almost every app and startup is competing for the same limited

by arkj 1y ago

Losing focus as a skill is something I see with every batch of new students. It’s not just LLMs, almost every app and startup is competing for the same limited attention from every user. What LLMs have done for most of my students is remove all the barriers to an answer they once had to work for. It’s easy to get hooked on fast answers and forget to ask why something works. That said, I think LLMs can support exploration—often beyond what Googling ever did—if we approach them the right way. I’ve seen moments where students pushed back on a first answer and uncovered deeper insights, but only because they chose to dig. The real danger isn’t the tool, it’s forgetting how to use it thoughtfully.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
schneems 1y ago
I feel that respecting the focus of others is also an important skill. If I'm pulled 27 different ways. Then when I finally get around to another engineer’s question “I need help” is a demand for my synchronous time and focus. Versus “I’m having problems with X, I need to Y, can you help me Z” could turn into a chat, or it could mean I’m able to deliver the needed information at once and move on. Many people these days don’t even bother to write questions. They write statements and expect you to infer the question from the statement. On the flip side, a thing we could learn more from LLMs is how to give a good response by explaining our reasoning out loud. Not “do X” but instead “It sounds like you want to W, and that’s blocked by Y. That is happening because of Z. To fix it you need to X because it …”
- daveguy 1y ago
  > Many people these days don’t even bother to write questions. They write statements and expect you to infer the question from the statement. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Not even asking for help just stating a complaint.
  - MichaelZuo 1y ago
    Well it seems like an easy way to filter them into the ignore pile…
    - oddly 1y ago
      Yes and no. Although I’m a proponent of the “put the pain where it belongs” way of doing things, sometimes a more nuanced way of doing things is needed. This usually involves more communication instead of less. You can always give them feedback that (may) make them reconsider their approach of just stating things and not asking questions. Small effort for you, but you might change someone’s way of asking things, both for the good of you and them. If that doesn’t work, you can always go back to ignoring.
    - schneems 1y ago
      I can’t ignore customer support tickets. Usually the most frantic and urgent tickets are the ones that also provide the least info too. Which is frustrating as it usually adds some extra back and forth which means it ultimately takes longer to resolve their tickets. There is also generally a correlation to spend and question quality.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
the_snooze 1y ago
In a way, I think it shows why "superfluous" things like sports and art are so important in school. In those activities, there are no quick answers. You need to persist through the initial learning curve and slow physical adaptation just to get baseline competency. You're not going to get a violin to stop sounding like a dying cat unless you accept that it's a gradual focused process.
- otabdeveloper4 1y ago
  > You're not going to get a violin to stop sounding like a dying cat unless you accept that it's a gradual focused process. You can sample that shit and make some loops in your DAW. Or just use a generative AI nowadays.
  - tarboreus 1y ago
    You can also just sit in the corner and never make anything. So what?
  - rf15 1y ago
    There are many ways to be a skillless hack, but why celebrate it?
    - otabdeveloper4 1y ago
      Beats me. You might ask Sam Altman and the other AI hype clowns. They're the authors of this hot take.
    - bokoharambe 1y ago
      Using a DAW makes you a "skilless hack"?
  - _Algernon_ 1y ago
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg?20250110201357 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe....
- 1y ago
bob1029 1y ago
> It’s easy to get hooked on fast answers and forget to ask why something works This is really a tragedy because the current technology is arguably one of the best things in existence for explaining "why?" to someone in a very personalized way. With application of discipline from my side, I can make the LLM lecture me until I genuinely understand the underlying principles of something. I keep hammering it with edge cases and hypotheticals until it comes back with "Exactly! ..." after reiterating my current understanding. The challenge for educators seems the same as it has always been - How do you make the student want to dig deeper? What does it take to turn someone into a strong skeptic regarding tools or technology? I'd propose the use of hallucinations as an educational tool. Put together a really nasty scenario (i.e., provoke a hallucination on purpose on behalf of the students that goes under their radar). Let them run with a misapprehension of the world for several weeks. Give them a test or lab assignment regarding this misapprehension. Fail 100% of the class on this assignment and have a special lecture afterward. Anyone who doesn't "get it" after this point should probably be filtered out anyways.
- daveguy 1y ago
  I'm not sure if hammering an LLM until it agrees with you is the best way to get to the truth.
  - bob1029 1y ago
    > with edge cases and hypotheticals not > conclusions I want to see The point is to be adversarial with your own ideas, not the opposite thing.
    - daveguy 1y ago
      So, just persist with your own ideas until it agrees with you, because eventually it always will. Then take that as a lesson?
brightball 1y ago
This is my constant concern these days and it makes me wonder if grading needs to change in order to alleviate some of the pressure to get the right answer so that students can focus on how.
nonrandomstring 1y ago
> Losing focus as a skill is something I see with every batch of new students. Gaining focus as a skill is something to work on with every batch of new students We're on the same page. I'm turning that around to say: let's remember focus isn't something we're naturally born with, it has to be built. Worked on hard. People coming to that task are increasingly damaged/injured imho.

by arkj 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

schneems 1y ago

I feel that respecting the focus of others is also an important skill. If I'm pulled 27 different ways. Then when I finally get around to another engineer’s question “I need help” is a demand for my synchronous time and focus. Versus “I’m having problems with X, I need to Y, can you help me Z” could turn into a chat, or it could mean I’m able to deliver the needed information at once and move on. Many people these days don’t even bother to write questions. They write statements and expect you to infer the question from the statement. On the flip side, a thing we could learn more from LLMs is how to give a good response by explaining our reasoning out loud. Not “do X” but instead “It sounds like you want to W, and that’s blocked by Y. That is happening because of Z. To fix it you need to X because it …”

daveguy 1y ago
> Many people these days don’t even bother to write questions. They write statements and expect you to infer the question from the statement. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Not even asking for help just stating a complaint.
- MichaelZuo 1y ago
  Well it seems like an easy way to filter them into the ignore pile…
  - oddly 1y ago
    Yes and no. Although I’m a proponent of the “put the pain where it belongs” way of doing things, sometimes a more nuanced way of doing things is needed. This usually involves more communication instead of less. You can always give them feedback that (may) make them reconsider their approach of just stating things and not asking questions. Small effort for you, but you might change someone’s way of asking things, both for the good of you and them. If that doesn’t work, you can always go back to ignoring.
  - schneems 1y ago
    I can’t ignore customer support tickets. Usually the most frantic and urgent tickets are the ones that also provide the least info too. Which is frustrating as it usually adds some extra back and forth which means it ultimately takes longer to resolve their tickets. There is also generally a correlation to spend and question quality.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

the_snooze 1y ago

In a way, I think it shows why "superfluous" things like sports and art are so important in school. In those activities, there are no quick answers. You need to persist through the initial learning curve and slow physical adaptation just to get baseline competency. You're not going to get a violin to stop sounding like a dying cat unless you accept that it's a gradual focused process.

otabdeveloper4 1y ago
> You're not going to get a violin to stop sounding like a dying cat unless you accept that it's a gradual focused process. You can sample that shit and make some loops in your DAW. Or just use a generative AI nowadays.
- tarboreus 1y ago
  You can also just sit in the corner and never make anything. So what?
- rf15 1y ago
  There are many ways to be a skillless hack, but why celebrate it?
  - otabdeveloper4 1y ago
    Beats me. You might ask Sam Altman and the other AI hype clowns. They're the authors of this hot take.
  - bokoharambe 1y ago
    Using a DAW makes you a "skilless hack"?
- _Algernon_ 1y ago
  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg?20250110201357 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe....
1y ago

bob1029 1y ago

> It’s easy to get hooked on fast answers and forget to ask why something works This is really a tragedy because the current technology is arguably one of the best things in existence for explaining "why?" to someone in a very personalized way. With application of discipline from my side, I can make the LLM lecture me until I genuinely understand the underlying principles of something. I keep hammering it with edge cases and hypotheticals until it comes back with "Exactly! ..." after reiterating my current understanding. The challenge for educators seems the same as it has always been - How do you make the student want to dig deeper? What does it take to turn someone into a strong skeptic regarding tools or technology? I'd propose the use of hallucinations as an educational tool. Put together a really nasty scenario (i.e., provoke a hallucination on purpose on behalf of the students that goes under their radar). Let them run with a misapprehension of the world for several weeks. Give them a test or lab assignment regarding this misapprehension. Fail 100% of the class on this assignment and have a special lecture afterward. Anyone who doesn't "get it" after this point should probably be filtered out anyways.

daveguy 1y ago
I'm not sure if hammering an LLM until it agrees with you is the best way to get to the truth.
- bob1029 1y ago
  > with edge cases and hypotheticals not > conclusions I want to see The point is to be adversarial with your own ideas, not the opposite thing.
  - daveguy 1y ago
    So, just persist with your own ideas until it agrees with you, because eventually it always will. Then take that as a lesson?

brightball 1y ago

This is my constant concern these days and it makes me wonder if grading needs to change in order to alleviate some of the pressure to get the right answer so that students can focus on how.

nonrandomstring 1y ago

> Losing focus as a skill is something I see with every batch of new students. Gaining focus as a skill is something to work on with every batch of new students We're on the same page. I'm turning that around to say: let's remember focus isn't something we're naturally born with, it has to be built. Worked on hard. People coming to that task are increasingly damaged/injured imho.