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So lets compare the most important features that HTML5 might bring to what flash offers: 1. Faster Javascript Engines AS3 in Flash Player 9 (2006) has about t

So lets compare the most important features that HTML5 might bring to what flash offers: 1. Faster Javascript Engines AS3 in Flash Player 9 (2006) has about the same speed Javascript has now. There are about as many benchmarks showing AS3 beeing faster, then there are the ones showing Javascript beeing faster. Speed seems to be about the same 2. WebSockets Has been in Flash since 2006 3. Binary Data Types (Typed Arrays and Blobs) Has been in Flash since 2006 4. Web Audio API Has been in Flash way longer 5. Canvas 2D Context Has been in Flash since like forever ago 6. CSS3 and WOFF Nothing really specific but Flash has most all of that since years 7. Local Storage, Offline Applications and the File APIs Since 2006/2008 8. Web Workers Will come with Flash 11.4 soon. 9. SVG 1.1/2.0 Vectors are at the core of Flash 10. WebGL Stage3D is in Flash since 2011 So just stop hatin Flash and love the browser independent possibilities.

joshmlewis 14y ago
In my opinion, being able to code and make things without the use of proprietary software will usually become more popular in the long run. With JS if necessary I can pull up any text editor if I had to and edit any file, with Flash there's a higher gateway to entry and a higher learner curve of sorts. It seems the the crowds will adopt the way of open in the long run. To me HTML5/JS just seems more natural and a prettier way of doing things.
- Liongadev 14y ago
  You dont need any proprietary software to code and make flash. Just use the flex compiler and code in any text editor. The flex compiler can do flash apps without flex also and has some pretty nice sintactical sugar things like two way databinding if you want it.
  - kevingadd 14y ago
    Other than the fact that the only way to test, run, and debug your applications involves using the closed source Flash Player...
icebraining 14y ago
Flash fails at much more fundamental issues, before these spiffy new features are even relevant.
- Liongadev 14y ago
  Like what?
  - icebraining 14y ago
    Use the browser search function, middle click links and have it respect your settings, use the browser's spellchecker on a textbox, increasing the text size with reflowing, using screen readers, etc. (Oh, and anything that Flash technically supports but doesn't do by default unlike HTML/CSS/JS is essentially the same as not having it, since we all know 90% of developers won't care). Oh, and more recently, use new versions on Linux outside of Chrome: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3780368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3780368
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > Oh, and more recently, use new versions on Linux outside of Chrome Or OSX. and use it at all for starters, still pegs my CPU doing trivial shit under OSX, even in Chrome.
  - SkyMarshal 14y ago
    Like working flawlessly on all operating systems.
  - mgcross 14y ago
    Relative positioning. Floats. Fonts (dynamic of course; particularly targeting 9 and below - functional, but pretty buggy). Hardware accelerated transforms. For games (and certainly banners)? I still think there's long way to go to catch up to Flash, even older Flash. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=680284 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=680284
erichocean 14y ago
11. A multi-vendor international standard. In Flash since...never. 12. Runs great on iOS and Android. In Flash since...never.
- _delirium 14y ago
  #11 could've turned out differently I think, but Adobe dragged their feet too long. They dropped any licensing restrictions on third-party implementations in 2009 along with releasing full specs for the format. After that happened, even woefully underfunded/understaffed projects like GNU Gnash actually made pretty good progress on implementing it. If they had dropped the restrictions earlier and someone with more funding than Gnash (like Apple) had wanted to build a third-party implementation of the spec directly in the browser (rather than as a plugin), I think it would've been possible. On the other hand, it's possible HTML5 is better thought out technically. I don't have a strong opinion on that. I do think the Adobe approach of "rich internet applications", which was once shunned by the HTML/hypertext community, is winning after all, just not in Adobe's format.
- azakai 14y ago
  Flash also dropped Linux. Together with Mobile, that makes 2 of my favorite platforms it doesn't support, making it useless.
arcos 14y ago
Yes, but flash sucks
TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Flash has WebSockets? No. Flash has raw TCP sockets and they are not nice, and unlike WebSockets don't pass through firewalls and proxies well.
- Liongadev 14y ago
  You can 100% emulate Websockets in Flash if you wanted, essentially librarys like socket.io use a flash fallback that does that. If you do a flash only game/app you probably just avoid the websocket overhead for faster development and better bandwith. Raw sockets pass through firewalls and proxies exactly as good as websockets.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Not on corporate/school/etc networks they don't. And avoiding WS and using normal sockets, god no. So much code for error handling and parsing and so on. Message passing is much nicer.
azakai 14y ago
> 1. Faster Javascript Engines > AS3 in Flash Player 9 (2006) has about the same speed Javascript has now. There are about as many benchmarks showing AS3 beeing faster, then there are the ones showing Javascript beeing faster. Speed seems to be about the same Links to back that up?
Wilya 14y ago
On the other hand, the flash player has been regularly crashing on me, whether on Windows, OSX, Linux or FreeBSD since.. well.. always. And there has been zero improvement over the years, except for the fact that browser made themselves resistant to these crashes. I don't miss the times when a player crash meant I'd lose my whole browser session. Features are irrelevant. The problem with flash is that it's painful for the user because it just doesn't work.
jcfrei 14y ago
thanks for spreading some love for flash. despite being hated on, despite having a terrible IDE and despite being closed source, there are actually quite marvellous things you could do with flash, that you can't even do with javascript today. example: http://www.6minutestomidnight.com/ http://www.6minutestomidnight.com/ not saying I would ever write something in flash again, but it really deserves a better reputation.

joshmlewis 14y ago

In my opinion, being able to code and make things without the use of proprietary software will usually become more popular in the long run. With JS if necessary I can pull up any text editor if I had to and edit any file, with Flash there's a higher gateway to entry and a higher learner curve of sorts. It seems the the crowds will adopt the way of open in the long run. To me HTML5/JS just seems more natural and a prettier way of doing things.

Liongadev 14y ago
You dont need any proprietary software to code and make flash. Just use the flex compiler and code in any text editor. The flex compiler can do flash apps without flex also and has some pretty nice sintactical sugar things like two way databinding if you want it.
- kevingadd 14y ago
  Other than the fact that the only way to test, run, and debug your applications involves using the closed source Flash Player...

icebraining 14y ago

Flash fails at much more fundamental issues, before these spiffy new features are even relevant.

Liongadev 14y ago
Like what?
- icebraining 14y ago
  Use the browser search function, middle click links and have it respect your settings, use the browser's spellchecker on a textbox, increasing the text size with reflowing, using screen readers, etc. (Oh, and anything that Flash technically supports but doesn't do by default unlike HTML/CSS/JS is essentially the same as not having it, since we all know 90% of developers won't care). Oh, and more recently, use new versions on Linux outside of Chrome: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3780368 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3780368
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > Oh, and more recently, use new versions on Linux outside of Chrome Or OSX. and use it at all for starters, still pegs my CPU doing trivial shit under OSX, even in Chrome.
- SkyMarshal 14y ago
  Like working flawlessly on all operating systems.
- mgcross 14y ago
  Relative positioning. Floats. Fonts (dynamic of course; particularly targeting 9 and below - functional, but pretty buggy). Hardware accelerated transforms. For games (and certainly banners)? I still think there's long way to go to catch up to Flash, even older Flash. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=680284 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=680284

erichocean 14y ago

11. A multi-vendor international standard. In Flash since...never. 12. Runs great on iOS and Android. In Flash since...never.

_delirium 14y ago
#11 could've turned out differently I think, but Adobe dragged their feet too long. They dropped any licensing restrictions on third-party implementations in 2009 along with releasing full specs for the format. After that happened, even woefully underfunded/understaffed projects like GNU Gnash actually made pretty good progress on implementing it. If they had dropped the restrictions earlier and someone with more funding than Gnash (like Apple) had wanted to build a third-party implementation of the spec directly in the browser (rather than as a plugin), I think it would've been possible. On the other hand, it's possible HTML5 is better thought out technically. I don't have a strong opinion on that. I do think the Adobe approach of "rich internet applications", which was once shunned by the HTML/hypertext community, is winning after all, just not in Adobe's format.
azakai 14y ago
Flash also dropped Linux. Together with Mobile, that makes 2 of my favorite platforms it doesn't support, making it useless.

arcos 14y ago

Yes, but flash sucks

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Flash has WebSockets? No. Flash has raw TCP sockets and they are not nice, and unlike WebSockets don't pass through firewalls and proxies well.

Liongadev 14y ago
You can 100% emulate Websockets in Flash if you wanted, essentially librarys like socket.io use a flash fallback that does that. If you do a flash only game/app you probably just avoid the websocket overhead for faster development and better bandwith. Raw sockets pass through firewalls and proxies exactly as good as websockets.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Not on corporate/school/etc networks they don't. And avoiding WS and using normal sockets, god no. So much code for error handling and parsing and so on. Message passing is much nicer.

azakai 14y ago

> 1. Faster Javascript Engines > AS3 in Flash Player 9 (2006) has about the same speed Javascript has now. There are about as many benchmarks showing AS3 beeing faster, then there are the ones showing Javascript beeing faster. Speed seems to be about the same Links to back that up?

Wilya 14y ago

On the other hand, the flash player has been regularly crashing on me, whether on Windows, OSX, Linux or FreeBSD since.. well.. always. And there has been zero improvement over the years, except for the fact that browser made themselves resistant to these crashes. I don't miss the times when a player crash meant I'd lose my whole browser session. Features are irrelevant. The problem with flash is that it's painful for the user because it just doesn't work.

jcfrei 14y ago

thanks for spreading some love for flash. despite being hated on, despite having a terrible IDE and despite being closed source, there are actually quite marvellous things you could do with flash, that you can't even do with javascript today. example: http://www.6minutestomidnight.com/ http://www.6minutestomidnight.com/ not saying I would ever write something in flash again, but it really deserves a better reputation.