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One theme that pops out to me here is the reliance on other people being a positive experience for the author. In the software field, we tend to live pretty hig

One theme that pops out to me here is the reliance on other people being a positive experience for the author. In the software field, we tend to live pretty high up the economic value chain, which can abstract us a bit from participation in the more grassroots co-operative aspect of society. This can be alienating and warp worldview. When I'm hitchhiking to support packrafting trips or get back to where I launched my paraglider, I have no say in who I'm going to be chatting with and feeling gratitude towards. Initially that feeling of being reliant on whoever comes my way was difficult to adjust to after the false sense of individualism that a high paying job in a bubble of similar people brings. The benefit though is enormous. Now I stop to help anyone who's broken down on the side of the road despite the flash judgements their car or bumper stickers might bring. I'm much more aware of the value and interconnectedness of our society, and feel inspired to actively seek to contribute instead of remaining aloof. Most importantly, I realize that there's a whole lot of people out there looking to help people out at any turn, and that gives me a lot of faith.

cynicalpeace 1y ago
I hitchhiked Mainland China in 2019, and it's true that you are constantly relying on the kindness of other people. But I would argue that the type of person that does this kind of thing is very independent and thrives in an individualist environment. After all- it's you that's inserting yourself into an environment of strangers. When I was in China, people were bewildered as to why anyone would ever hitchhike. Whereas in America, a 5 year old knows what hitchhiking is.
- contingencies 1y ago
  Err yeah, mostly based in China ~2001-2022 here. Basically in China hitchhiking makes you look like a criminal because there's perfectly good long distance transport for not much and the government bans people it doesn't like from using it. Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss. Sounds like a cool trip! Where'd you go to/from? Got a write-up somewhere? Highlights? I really enjoyed cycle touring in the west of China, there's some really beautiful areas.
  - coldtea 1y ago
    >Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss Not if you're a westerner and look like an obvious tourist/trekker, etc
raffael_de 1y ago
I made similar experiences - some also through hitch hiking. One major takeaway for me was how often my "flash judgements" are wrong or unfair. I'd also say that asking for help and trusting is more of a strength one has to develop and nurture than a sign of weakness, which is what I used to believe.
- jajko 1y ago
  That classic meme of guys never asking for driving direction, so women have to... but its not so much meme, just refusal to step out of comfort self-zone
schmookeeg 1y ago
Thank you for this. You gelled several ideas I was ruminating on over my morning tea -- my aloofness and my sneaking suspicion that self-sufficiency is isolating from society at large. I still pull over to help motorists. You've inspired me to look for more opportunities like those. :)
dangus 1y ago
I feel like this comment and the article itself together in context have kind of a sour taste for me. Just the fact that it takes such a great effort to experience first-hand how poorer people just help each other out because nobody has money, so they help. But for a tech bro to do that they have to engage in a self-indulgent hobby and cosplay as poor like they're on Undercover Boss. Ironically this effort to relate to other real live humans with normal incomes is only possible by indulging in the ultimate luxury, which is taking major time off of work rather than being stuck working a shit job. This is all done with a straight face while jamming a sentence full of words like "paraglider" and "packrafting." This whole subject is all so stereotypical tech bro in such an unappealing way. Maybe this sounds unnecessarily bitter, but I think a valid alternate take on this is that privileged people are taking advantage of the kindness of others to get a bunch of help they don't need to help them achieve a goal that is a frivolous luxury. It's great we all get to feel warm fuzzy gratitude but it seems like the NPCs in this main character syndrome story are the people inconvenienced by the OP. Example: asking the fire department for a place to sleep, they probably feel bad so they let OP sleep in the fire department. But as a tech startup founder and software engineer, OP could have almost certainly afforded a basic motel each night with minimal to zero planning and effort and not resorted to inconveniencing other people. It feels a little bit like your CEO going to the food bank doesn't it? The median firefighter earns under $60k and dude who has probably outearns that salary in passive investment income is asking for a place to crash. I bet if the firefighter knew that they'd surely still be nice on the outside but they'd probably have a negative story to tell their spouse when they got home. I completely understand that not booking a motel facilitated human connection and all that loveliness but I sense that the benefit is very one-sided. In Zuckerberg-esque style, the tech bro gets to cosplay as a human with real emotions, while on the "normie NPC" side they get to deal with a tech bro on a bicycle asking for weird shit while they're just trying to get through a shift.
- _rpxpx 1y ago
  Agreed. This sort of article does convey a lot about the mental world of the tech bro. Apart from the surprise at the hospitality of "normal people" it has the glassy sheen of purely procedural mind. I mean, one is not exactly swept away by the sense of adventure. It's a sort of fitness exercise.
giantg2 1y ago
"we tend to live pretty high up the economic value chain, which can abstract us a bit from participation in the more grassroots co-operative aspect of society." I really don't see this as being directly true. Most sorts of interactions where we would depend on others/strangers would happen outside of a job, just like all the examples you give. Maybe there's some truth to the stereotype that us IT guys are nerds and participate in fewer IRL group hobbies, which could make your statement indirectly true. However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc where people are from different backgrounds and regions. But then again, maybe I'm the odd one out as a middle class developer with everyone making more than me.
- jaxtracks 1y ago
  Oh yeah that's a sweeping generalization of course. My point was that the heavy reliance on paid services that usually comes with a white-collar lifestyle reduces participation in community-based mutual aid and deepens cultural divides. I figure this probably gets worse with higher income since the more services you can afford, the less you may feel you need community. Diverse hobby groups are also a great way of attacking these divides, but may lack the aspect of vulnerability that comes from experiences like the author's.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc Both are luxury communities though. I mean, the example MMORPGs as a community, it has nothing to do with the community experience of poorer people "people helping each other to get by" mentioned
7402 1y ago
> Now I stop to help anyone who's broken down on the side of the road I have a certain amount of fear about doing this sort of thing. I am ashamed of that, too. When I was in college (this was in a small city), I was walking at night by the library and I saw someone trip and fall in front of me. I asked if they were hurt and if I could help. He hobbled up and said yes, one leg was injured, but he just needed some help to get back to his car. I helped walk him four or five blocks, supporting his shoulder. In a darker bit of street, his friend tackled me to the ground and threatened to kill me with his gun. He took my wallet, ordered me not to stir from where he pushed me under a car, and they ran off. To be explicit here, the tripping and falling was fake. The campus police took me to the student health services; my knee was banged and slightly scraped from the tackle. I related the story to the doctor and he said, "Well, you can't stop helping people." On the other hand, the cop just said, if anything like that ever happens, I didn't have to handle it myself, just call them, they were happy to come and assist anyone who might need help on campus. I still help others when I can, but I am always cautious about my environment and assessing the circumstances

cynicalpeace 1y ago

I hitchhiked Mainland China in 2019, and it's true that you are constantly relying on the kindness of other people. But I would argue that the type of person that does this kind of thing is very independent and thrives in an individualist environment. After all- it's you that's inserting yourself into an environment of strangers. When I was in China, people were bewildered as to why anyone would ever hitchhike. Whereas in America, a 5 year old knows what hitchhiking is.

contingencies 1y ago
Err yeah, mostly based in China ~2001-2022 here. Basically in China hitchhiking makes you look like a criminal because there's perfectly good long distance transport for not much and the government bans people it doesn't like from using it. Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss. Sounds like a cool trip! Where'd you go to/from? Got a write-up somewhere? Highlights? I really enjoyed cycle touring in the west of China, there's some really beautiful areas.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >Therefore, if you're thumbing you're looking suss Not if you're a westerner and look like an obvious tourist/trekker, etc

raffael_de 1y ago

I made similar experiences - some also through hitch hiking. One major takeaway for me was how often my "flash judgements" are wrong or unfair. I'd also say that asking for help and trusting is more of a strength one has to develop and nurture than a sign of weakness, which is what I used to believe.

jajko 1y ago
That classic meme of guys never asking for driving direction, so women have to... but its not so much meme, just refusal to step out of comfort self-zone

schmookeeg 1y ago

Thank you for this. You gelled several ideas I was ruminating on over my morning tea -- my aloofness and my sneaking suspicion that self-sufficiency is isolating from society at large. I still pull over to help motorists. You've inspired me to look for more opportunities like those. :)

dangus 1y ago

I feel like this comment and the article itself together in context have kind of a sour taste for me. Just the fact that it takes such a great effort to experience first-hand how poorer people just help each other out because nobody has money, so they help. But for a tech bro to do that they have to engage in a self-indulgent hobby and cosplay as poor like they're on Undercover Boss. Ironically this effort to relate to other real live humans with normal incomes is only possible by indulging in the ultimate luxury, which is taking major time off of work rather than being stuck working a shit job. This is all done with a straight face while jamming a sentence full of words like "paraglider" and "packrafting." This whole subject is all so stereotypical tech bro in such an unappealing way. Maybe this sounds unnecessarily bitter, but I think a valid alternate take on this is that privileged people are taking advantage of the kindness of others to get a bunch of help they don't need to help them achieve a goal that is a frivolous luxury. It's great we all get to feel warm fuzzy gratitude but it seems like the NPCs in this main character syndrome story are the people inconvenienced by the OP. Example: asking the fire department for a place to sleep, they probably feel bad so they let OP sleep in the fire department. But as a tech startup founder and software engineer, OP could have almost certainly afforded a basic motel each night with minimal to zero planning and effort and not resorted to inconveniencing other people. It feels a little bit like your CEO going to the food bank doesn't it? The median firefighter earns under $60k and dude who has probably outearns that salary in passive investment income is asking for a place to crash. I bet if the firefighter knew that they'd surely still be nice on the outside but they'd probably have a negative story to tell their spouse when they got home. I completely understand that not booking a motel facilitated human connection and all that loveliness but I sense that the benefit is very one-sided. In Zuckerberg-esque style, the tech bro gets to cosplay as a human with real emotions, while on the "normie NPC" side they get to deal with a tech bro on a bicycle asking for weird shit while they're just trying to get through a shift.

_rpxpx 1y ago
Agreed. This sort of article does convey a lot about the mental world of the tech bro. Apart from the surprise at the hospitality of "normal people" it has the glassy sheen of purely procedural mind. I mean, one is not exactly swept away by the sense of adventure. It's a sort of fitness exercise.

giantg2 1y ago

"we tend to live pretty high up the economic value chain, which can abstract us a bit from participation in the more grassroots co-operative aspect of society." I really don't see this as being directly true. Most sorts of interactions where we would depend on others/strangers would happen outside of a job, just like all the examples you give. Maybe there's some truth to the stereotype that us IT guys are nerds and participate in fewer IRL group hobbies, which could make your statement indirectly true. However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc where people are from different backgrounds and regions. But then again, maybe I'm the odd one out as a middle class developer with everyone making more than me.

jaxtracks 1y ago
Oh yeah that's a sweeping generalization of course. My point was that the heavy reliance on paid services that usually comes with a white-collar lifestyle reduces participation in community-based mutual aid and deepens cultural divides. I figure this probably gets worse with higher income since the more services you can afford, the less you may feel you need community. Diverse hobby groups are also a great way of attacking these divides, but may lack the aspect of vulnerability that comes from experiences like the author's.
coldtea 1y ago
>However, there's still communities build around stuff like MMORPGs, FOSS, etc Both are luxury communities though. I mean, the example MMORPGs as a community, it has nothing to do with the community experience of poorer people "people helping each other to get by" mentioned

7402 1y ago

> Now I stop to help anyone who's broken down on the side of the road I have a certain amount of fear about doing this sort of thing. I am ashamed of that, too. When I was in college (this was in a small city), I was walking at night by the library and I saw someone trip and fall in front of me. I asked if they were hurt and if I could help. He hobbled up and said yes, one leg was injured, but he just needed some help to get back to his car. I helped walk him four or five blocks, supporting his shoulder. In a darker bit of street, his friend tackled me to the ground and threatened to kill me with his gun. He took my wallet, ordered me not to stir from where he pushed me under a car, and they ran off. To be explicit here, the tripping and falling was fake. The campus police took me to the student health services; my knee was banged and slightly scraped from the tackle. I related the story to the doctor and he said, "Well, you can't stop helping people." On the other hand, the cop just said, if anything like that ever happens, I didn't have to handle it myself, just call them, they were happy to come and assist anyone who might need help on campus. I still help others when I can, but I am always cautious about my environment and assessing the circumstances