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As a foreigner I cannot comment on this, else I will be rejected at the airport by the ICE. That's called freedom my friends.

by m2f2 1y ago

atoav 1y ago
Rejected is somewhat euphemistic, you might be: - held for an indefinite time without due process and information what you did wrong - stripped naked and spilled with cold water - potentially worse, but that depends entirely on the way things are developing on a day-by-day basis And if someone thinks that won't happen to them because they come from a western country and have a low eumelanin pigmentation level, recent examples show that this does not matter¹. Remember ICE also appears to want to police "illegal ideas" at the border now². These arbitrary arrests, a disregard for the Rule of Law and the valuation of loyalty to the cause over predictable consequences fit the despotic style that is encouraged in the US from the top down lately. The world would be wise not continue betting all their cards on a crazy horse. ¹: Germany, Feb 2025 – Tourist held 16 days at border, deported without clear reason. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-european-tourists-borders/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-europe... UK, Mar 2025 – Backpacker held 3 weeks at Canada border, no charges. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Germany, Mar 2025 – Visitor held 45 days under Visa Waiver, unclear why. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-detention-of-european-and-canadian-tourists-creates-fear-over-traveling-to-america https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-detention-of-european... Canada, Mar 2025 – Woman with valid visa held 12 days at border. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-european-tourists-borders/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-europe... UK, Mar 2025 – Punk band denied entry, detained at LAX. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Germany, Mar 2025 – Green card holder detained at Boston airport. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Multiple, Mar 2025 – ICE arrested 48 in NM; cause/details unclear. https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-mystery-of-ices-unidentifiable-arrests https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-mystery-of-ices-... ²: ICE posted a very "unfortunate" marketing picture recently: https://www.newsweek.com/ice-illegal-ideas-border-security-social-media-post-2058217 https://www.newsweek.com/ice-illegal-ideas-border-security-s...
- irundebian 1y ago
  These should be very few cases in contrast to the number of people traveling into the US.
  - atoav 1y ago
    Yeah, but there is a dark number of cases that don't make it to the media, e.g. I just read by a guy who had a 15k$ cruise ship trip booked from the US and was rejected at the border because they found his flight stop "unusual" he came from Australia and had a stopover in Asia because that was the cheapest flight. He wasn't imprisoned without any legal process, but the number of people rejected without cause ought to be much higher than the number of people who will be detained. I grew up in a tourism country and the number one rule of tourism is that if you want people to come hospitality goes a long way. A mad-king-leader calling them freeloaders and quoting Napoleon with "He who saves his country, violates no law" and a cult like followership doesn't exactly instill confidence that your rights will be respected when you go there. The current administration seems to be downright hostile to everybody who isn't a US citizen even if we'd just come to spend our money in the US. Pair that with a lack of basic oversight over your cops/TSA-agents/whatever and suddenly the US just isn't as attractive any more. Don't get me wrong, I find the US fascinating, but given I am in the middle of Europe, I have many destinations with a friendlier atmosphere and a more reliable political leadership to chose from.
yard2010 1y ago
[flagged]
- go_elmo 1y ago
  "Other places are 10x worse, you should be grateful to just eat 1 shovel of dirt / week instead of 10"
- nabla9 1y ago
  The reality is more nuanced. Take China for example. People do criticize the government online all the time. It's just that criticism magically disappears before it reaches critical mass. Generally China does not throw people (Han Chinese, minorities are different) into gulag for posting against the government. They are just constantly censoring and shaping the discussion. Only after they can't contain something they step up. Even then, there is often a phone call first. They try to be efficient. People have rebel fantasy that US tuns into fascist dictatorship. What really happens is that US turns into illiberal democracy like Hungary. There is constant headwind going against the government or voicing your opinion, you don't get fair treatment and opportunities. Most people just stop resisting when it's somewhat inconvenient. You can still post anything but it is drowned by algorithms.
  - DavidPiper 1y ago
    Genuinely curious: what do you see as the distinction between an illiberal democracy and a fascist dictatorship? And if there is a significant difference, what stops one becoming the other?
    - Epa095 1y ago
      People "falling" out of helicopters.
    - energy123 1y ago
      Elections aren't rigged but everything else is rigged, like media is controlled by government or opposition candidates are jailed. In Russia the elections actually are rigged and China doesn't have elections so they are both dictatorships. Granted the line between them is fuzzy so it's more helpful to think of it as a spectrum.
anonfordays 1y ago
If this is in reference to the French scientist that was denied entry, that was fake news: "The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory— in violation of a non-disclosure agreement—something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal. Any claim that his removal was based on political beliefs is blatantly false." https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/20/french-researcher-denied-access-us/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/20/french-researcher-den...
- EasyMark 1y ago
  That said you better make sure your "papers" are good. Instead of just putting you on the plane and sending you back home, there have been many recent cases of tourists handcuffed and sent to ICE facilities for a couple of days up to a couple of weeks. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/04/12/ice-tourist-detention-border-trump-immigration/82740260007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/04/12/ice-to... https://beatofhawaii.com/why-these-hawaii-travelers-were-jailed-and-deported/ https://beatofhawaii.com/why-these-hawaii-travelers-were-jai...
  - anonfordays 1y ago
    There's an huge amount of entitlement from people coming to the US, as if their presence is a gift and they're owed entry uncontested. For decades at this rate everyone just walked all over US customs and immigration. Now that the US is enforcing immigration laws to similar levels as South Korea, Japan, Israel, Switzerland, Vietnam, etc. people are clutching their pearls. Sorry, refils are no longer free. You're not owed free refils because that's how it use to be.

As a foreigner I cannot comment on this, else I will be rejected at the airport by the ICE. That's called freedom my friends.

by m2f2 1y ago

As a foreigner I cannot comment on this, else I will be rejected at the airport by the ICE. That's called freedom my friends.

atoav 1y ago

Rejected is somewhat euphemistic, you might be: - held for an indefinite time without due process and information what you did wrong - stripped naked and spilled with cold water - potentially worse, but that depends entirely on the way things are developing on a day-by-day basis And if someone thinks that won't happen to them because they come from a western country and have a low eumelanin pigmentation level, recent examples show that this does not matter¹. Remember ICE also appears to want to police "illegal ideas" at the border now². These arbitrary arrests, a disregard for the Rule of Law and the valuation of loyalty to the cause over predictable consequences fit the despotic style that is encouraged in the US from the top down lately. The world would be wise not continue betting all their cards on a crazy horse. ¹: Germany, Feb 2025 – Tourist held 16 days at border, deported without clear reason. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-european-tourists-borders/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-europe... UK, Mar 2025 – Backpacker held 3 weeks at Canada border, no charges. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Germany, Mar 2025 – Visitor held 45 days under Visa Waiver, unclear why. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-detention-of-european-and-canadian-tourists-creates-fear-over-traveling-to-america https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-detention-of-european... Canada, Mar 2025 – Woman with valid visa held 12 days at border. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-european-tourists-borders/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-immigration-detaining-europe... UK, Mar 2025 – Punk band denied entry, detained at LAX. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Germany, Mar 2025 – Green card holder detained at Boston airport. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trump-immigration-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/tourism-trum... Multiple, Mar 2025 – ICE arrested 48 in NM; cause/details unclear. https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-mystery-of-ices-unidentifiable-arrests https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-mystery-of-ices-... ²: ICE posted a very "unfortunate" marketing picture recently: https://www.newsweek.com/ice-illegal-ideas-border-security-social-media-post-2058217 https://www.newsweek.com/ice-illegal-ideas-border-security-s...

irundebian 1y ago
These should be very few cases in contrast to the number of people traveling into the US.
- atoav 1y ago
  Yeah, but there is a dark number of cases that don't make it to the media, e.g. I just read by a guy who had a 15k$ cruise ship trip booked from the US and was rejected at the border because they found his flight stop "unusual" he came from Australia and had a stopover in Asia because that was the cheapest flight. He wasn't imprisoned without any legal process, but the number of people rejected without cause ought to be much higher than the number of people who will be detained. I grew up in a tourism country and the number one rule of tourism is that if you want people to come hospitality goes a long way. A mad-king-leader calling them freeloaders and quoting Napoleon with "He who saves his country, violates no law" and a cult like followership doesn't exactly instill confidence that your rights will be respected when you go there. The current administration seems to be downright hostile to everybody who isn't a US citizen even if we'd just come to spend our money in the US. Pair that with a lack of basic oversight over your cops/TSA-agents/whatever and suddenly the US just isn't as attractive any more. Don't get me wrong, I find the US fascinating, but given I am in the middle of Europe, I have many destinations with a friendlier atmosphere and a more reliable political leadership to chose from.

yard2010 1y ago

[flagged]

go_elmo 1y ago
"Other places are 10x worse, you should be grateful to just eat 1 shovel of dirt / week instead of 10"
nabla9 1y ago
The reality is more nuanced. Take China for example. People do criticize the government online all the time. It's just that criticism magically disappears before it reaches critical mass. Generally China does not throw people (Han Chinese, minorities are different) into gulag for posting against the government. They are just constantly censoring and shaping the discussion. Only after they can't contain something they step up. Even then, there is often a phone call first. They try to be efficient. People have rebel fantasy that US tuns into fascist dictatorship. What really happens is that US turns into illiberal democracy like Hungary. There is constant headwind going against the government or voicing your opinion, you don't get fair treatment and opportunities. Most people just stop resisting when it's somewhat inconvenient. You can still post anything but it is drowned by algorithms.
- DavidPiper 1y ago
  Genuinely curious: what do you see as the distinction between an illiberal democracy and a fascist dictatorship? And if there is a significant difference, what stops one becoming the other?
  - Epa095 1y ago
    People "falling" out of helicopters.
  - energy123 1y ago
    Elections aren't rigged but everything else is rigged, like media is controlled by government or opposition candidates are jailed. In Russia the elections actually are rigged and China doesn't have elections so they are both dictatorships. Granted the line between them is fuzzy so it's more helpful to think of it as a spectrum.

anonfordays 1y ago

If this is in reference to the French scientist that was denied entry, that was fake news: "The French researcher in question was in possession of confidential information on his electronic device from Los Alamos National Laboratory— in violation of a non-disclosure agreement—something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal. Any claim that his removal was based on political beliefs is blatantly false." https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/20/french-researcher-denied-access-us/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/20/french-researcher-den...

EasyMark 1y ago
That said you better make sure your "papers" are good. Instead of just putting you on the plane and sending you back home, there have been many recent cases of tourists handcuffed and sent to ICE facilities for a couple of days up to a couple of weeks. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/04/12/ice-tourist-detention-border-trump-immigration/82740260007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/04/12/ice-to... https://beatofhawaii.com/why-these-hawaii-travelers-were-jailed-and-deported/ https://beatofhawaii.com/why-these-hawaii-travelers-were-jai...
- anonfordays 1y ago
  There's an huge amount of entitlement from people coming to the US, as if their presence is a gift and they're owed entry uncontested. For decades at this rate everyone just walked all over US customs and immigration. Now that the US is enforcing immigration laws to similar levels as South Korea, Japan, Israel, Switzerland, Vietnam, etc. people are clutching their pearls. Sorry, refils are no longer free. You're not owed free refils because that's how it use to be.