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Yes, I know that. But when talking about reproducible packages, we can and should learn from existing techniques. Is Fedoras system capable of this goal? Is

Yes, I know that. But when talking about reproducible packages, we can and should learn from existing techniques. Is Fedoras system capable of this goal? Is it built the right way? Should it adopt an alternate package manager to achieve this with less headache?

dogleash 1y ago
"What about Nix tho?" is the "Rewrite it in Rust" of reproducible builds.
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johnny22 1y ago
No other currently distro whether it be debian, fedora, or arch, or opensuse seems to want to switch up their design to match nix's approach. They have too many people familiar with the current approaches.
- nonameiguess 1y ago
  That's not even really true. Hacker News readers seem to fixate heavily on the most popular desktop versions of Linux distros, but that is far from all they make. SUSE with SLE Micro and Edge Image Builder is a declarative build system for creating your own installer images. If you don't want SLE Micro, they even give you the Elemental Toolkit, which can be used to build your own custom distro in a declarative manner. I don't know much about Debian and Red Hat's approaches to this, but I know they have similar tooling. The "problem," if you want to call it that, is developers, if I may be uncharitable for a brief moment here, are amazingly solipsistic. The major Linux vendors are targeting enterprise edge computing use cases, whereas developers only ever think about the endpoint PCs they themselves use for development. Plenty of distro tooling will give you declaratively built, transactionally updated, immutable server images, but if they don't give you the same for your personal laptop, those efforts are invisible to the modal Hacker News commenter. For what it's worth, there's also Guix, which is literally a clone of Nix but part of the GNU project, so it only uses free software and opts for Guile instead of a custom DSL for configuration. It wasn't a pre-existing distro that changed, of course.
  - johnny22 1y ago
    Guix counts, but what suse is doing does not. It is still based on rpm packages underneath last i checked.

dogleash 1y ago

"What about Nix tho?" is the "Rewrite it in Rust" of reproducible builds.

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johnny22 1y ago

No other currently distro whether it be debian, fedora, or arch, or opensuse seems to want to switch up their design to match nix's approach. They have too many people familiar with the current approaches.

nonameiguess 1y ago
That's not even really true. Hacker News readers seem to fixate heavily on the most popular desktop versions of Linux distros, but that is far from all they make. SUSE with SLE Micro and Edge Image Builder is a declarative build system for creating your own installer images. If you don't want SLE Micro, they even give you the Elemental Toolkit, which can be used to build your own custom distro in a declarative manner. I don't know much about Debian and Red Hat's approaches to this, but I know they have similar tooling. The "problem," if you want to call it that, is developers, if I may be uncharitable for a brief moment here, are amazingly solipsistic. The major Linux vendors are targeting enterprise edge computing use cases, whereas developers only ever think about the endpoint PCs they themselves use for development. Plenty of distro tooling will give you declaratively built, transactionally updated, immutable server images, but if they don't give you the same for your personal laptop, those efforts are invisible to the modal Hacker News commenter. For what it's worth, there's also Guix, which is literally a clone of Nix but part of the GNU project, so it only uses free software and opts for Guile instead of a custom DSL for configuration. It wasn't a pre-existing distro that changed, of course.
- johnny22 1y ago
  Guix counts, but what suse is doing does not. It is still based on rpm packages underneath last i checked.