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The Uber example is also an outright lie. They acquired those customers by burning billions of dollars to deliver rides below the cost of providing them. Then

by Jochim 1y ago

The Uber example is also an outright lie. They acquired those customers by burning billions of dollars to deliver rides below the cost of providing them. Then they raised prices beyond their competition to account for their ridiculous overheads.

renewiltord 1y ago
Taxis still exist and are still more expensive. You pay for them to use bus lanes in SF and so on. Uber prices are not beyond the competition.
- samtp 1y ago
  At least in Seattle, it's actually about 50% cheaper to get a taxi from SeaTac to the city than to take a Lyft or Uber.
  - renewiltord 1y ago
    Ah then it’s regional. In SF it’s typically 30% more expensive in a taxi from the airport to 4th and king.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      it's like $40 to take a car vs like $15 on Bart into the city.
      - renewiltord 1y ago
        BART takes 2x the time station to station. Try it out right now. The time is 1256 as of the time of this comment. SFO International to Montgomery St. Station: Earliest arrival is 1346 Driving: Earliest arrival is 1323 My experience is that the car takes ~6 min to arrive to pick you up for Uber. You can call it earlier, but assuming you call it when you arrive and then wait that's 1322. You lose 23 minutes to BART. And that's BART station to BART station. Change it slightly, like to my home near Caltrain and it's pointless. The cost in time is way more than $25.
        fragmede 1y ago
        What are you going to do on your phone in the Uber vs on your phone on your couch when you get home vs your phone on Bart? If you have an important in-person meeting to get to then by all means pay the surcharge but let's be real about how some of us are spending those "saved" minutes. Thank you for doing the math - we're only talking about 23 of them? it's entirely possible to capitalize on 23 minutes, but seriously, 23 minutes?
        renewiltord 1y ago
        Can use your laptop in the car safely. A friend of mine had his laptop yanked on BART. Chap ran off, my friend gave chase, and that guy threw away the laptop. Surprisingly, only dented! But I'd rather not experience that. 28 minute ride vs. 45 minute ride after 10 min wait is pretty large difference IMHO. If no traffic, that's even shorter. For me, from Caltrain station (where I live) to airport I have a record door to gate of 16 min. That's a no planning choice. If I have to make a 45 minute ride I have to plan: take the T-line to Powell, switch to BART, ride down to the airport? Crazy. No chance.
        fragmede 1y ago
        Yikes that's scary. I'm still gonna take Bart tho. Do what's right for you!
  - hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
    I'm curious as to why that is. A few months ago I took a taxi from the airport in Austin (because I had neglected to book my Uber/Lyft before I got to the rideshare area and there was a significant wait) and I vowed "never again". It was about 50% more than Uber/Lyft, and everything about the experience was worse in the ways taxis have always been worse - payment is much more of a pain in the ass, you don't know how much it costs until the end, and the cab smelled. I can wholeheartedly understand complaints about Uber and Lyft, but I don't understand at all when I sometimes see this collective amnesia about how much taxis sucked before rideshare came on the scene.
    - tyoma 1y ago
      I think its less amnesia and more that many commenters were too young to have experienced pre-Uber taxis: the call for a pickup thats routinely ignored, flailing arms in the cold hoping someone stops, the smelly car, refusal to pick you up because your ride is too short or too long, getting taken for an extended ride to your destination, the credit card machine thats always broken. Oh, and if you want to complain I hope you can make an 8am hearing at the taxi commission in 6 weeks.
    - RandallBrown 1y ago
      > I'm curious as to why that is Seattle has added some extra fees and pay requirements for drivers that drive up the cost of a ride share. In retaliation to these laws, ride share companies have also raised prices. An Uber from my house to the SeaTac airport used to cost about $30 5 or 6 years ago. It's now around $100. A taxi is about $80 now. Paying for parking is cheaper now than either of those options.
  - jasode 1y ago
    >, it's actually about 50% cheaper to get a taxi from SeaTac to the city than to take a Lyft or Uber. That type of ride from a "hub" where a bunch of taxis congregate to take the next passenger -- such as SEATAC airport -- is optimal for traditional taxis and can be cheaper. But using Uber for suburb-to-suburb routes away from any hubs is cheaper than taxis and I tried to explain why that happens: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30660517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30660517
    - tekno45 1y ago
      your "hack" is just how it works for food delivery. If you don't leave a tip, they'll ignore it and itll never get picked up.
- acdha 1y ago
  Where I live, Uber is recognized as the high prices option. Once VCs stopped subsidizing rides prices went up and availability went down - it was a running joke for years that at DCA you’d see people waiting in line for 20 minutes to spend $20 more than hopping in a waiting cab.
  - ta1243 1y ago
    Been burnt too often by american taxis that won't take cards or won't give receipts or have adverts on screens as you're travelling.
    - acdha 1y ago
      That’s not a problem here (they have an app, too) but it’s definitely valid for Uber to compete on better service. I am skeptical that they will be able to get the kind of returns which their investors want that way, however.
      - ta1243 1y ago
        I fly into a random city, say Denver. I could start hunting around for a local taxi app, which may or may not work, may or may not have any cars I could get in a waiting taxi at the airport, but then I run into issues with cash etc I could use uber while I'm still collecting my bag and have a known car and known experience waiting for me
        acdha 1y ago
        Sure, as I said they have a potential edge in service and people who frequently travel to new places. My point was just that it’s not a very big edge: most people are not traveling to new places all of the time and if there’s a big savings they’ll switch. That doesn’t mean that Uber is doomed, just that they’re not a Google/Facebook money printing machine where local competitors can pop up easily.
      - fragmede 1y ago
        they already IPOed so the original investors made out with a ton of money. if you think there's still a version where Uber evaporates overnight, I have some puts to sell you.
- piva00 1y ago
  Where I live taxis are on par with Uber, sometimes cheaper when Uber has surge prices. We also have Bolt, an European competitor, which is usually 10-40% cheaper than Uber or taxis. Every Uber or Bolt can also operate as a taxi since the regulations stipulate that any private passenger transport service is the same as a taxi, and has to follow the same regulations.
cyberax 1y ago
> They acquired those customers by burning billions of dollars to deliver rides below the cost of providing them. That is exaggerated. Uber was losing something like $0.50-$1 per ride in 2018. Uber/Lyft were (and still mostly are) just _better_ than taxis.
- const_cast 1y ago
  It’s not exaggerated. Uber was losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year operating. That’s billions. I don’t know if I trust Ubers numbers on this. I don’t know what they’re counting as “cost per ride”. Does engineers salaries factor into that? What about data centers? Advertising? If you factor all of it in, then they’re losing billions.
  - cyberax 1y ago
    > It’s not exaggerated. Uber was losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year operating. That’s billions. Well, yes. However, the impact of that on the ride cost is exaggerated. > Does engineers salaries factor into that? What about data centers? Advertising? Yes. > If you factor all of it in, then they’re losing billions. And when you divide it by the number of rides, you get into sub-$1 figures.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - const_cast 1y ago
      > Well, yes. However, the impact of that on the ride cost is exaggerated. Yeah, because they’re losing the money. Meaning YOU’RE not paying it, it’s being lost. Keep in mind this is also with: - uber not providing the capital for their rides. Taxi companies buy taxis, uber says you buy it. - vastly underpaying their work force. - skirting employment laws with gig work - relying on tips! The ride cost doesn’t include tips, despite that being a huge portion of wages!
- torginus 1y ago
  Uber was a 9 year old company in 2018

by Jochim 1y ago

renewiltord 1y ago

Taxis still exist and are still more expensive. You pay for them to use bus lanes in SF and so on. Uber prices are not beyond the competition.

samtp 1y ago
At least in Seattle, it's actually about 50% cheaper to get a taxi from SeaTac to the city than to take a Lyft or Uber.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  Ah then it’s regional. In SF it’s typically 30% more expensive in a taxi from the airport to 4th and king.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    it's like $40 to take a car vs like $15 on Bart into the city.
    - renewiltord 1y ago
      BART takes 2x the time station to station. Try it out right now. The time is 1256 as of the time of this comment. SFO International to Montgomery St. Station: Earliest arrival is 1346 Driving: Earliest arrival is 1323 My experience is that the car takes ~6 min to arrive to pick you up for Uber. You can call it earlier, but assuming you call it when you arrive and then wait that's 1322. You lose 23 minutes to BART. And that's BART station to BART station. Change it slightly, like to my home near Caltrain and it's pointless. The cost in time is way more than $25.
      - fragmede 1y ago
        What are you going to do on your phone in the Uber vs on your phone on your couch when you get home vs your phone on Bart? If you have an important in-person meeting to get to then by all means pay the surcharge but let's be real about how some of us are spending those "saved" minutes. Thank you for doing the math - we're only talking about 23 of them? it's entirely possible to capitalize on 23 minutes, but seriously, 23 minutes?
        renewiltord 1y ago
        Can use your laptop in the car safely. A friend of mine had his laptop yanked on BART. Chap ran off, my friend gave chase, and that guy threw away the laptop. Surprisingly, only dented! But I'd rather not experience that. 28 minute ride vs. 45 minute ride after 10 min wait is pretty large difference IMHO. If no traffic, that's even shorter. For me, from Caltrain station (where I live) to airport I have a record door to gate of 16 min. That's a no planning choice. If I have to make a 45 minute ride I have to plan: take the T-line to Powell, switch to BART, ride down to the airport? Crazy. No chance.
        fragmede 1y ago
        Yikes that's scary. I'm still gonna take Bart tho. Do what's right for you!
- hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
  I'm curious as to why that is. A few months ago I took a taxi from the airport in Austin (because I had neglected to book my Uber/Lyft before I got to the rideshare area and there was a significant wait) and I vowed "never again". It was about 50% more than Uber/Lyft, and everything about the experience was worse in the ways taxis have always been worse - payment is much more of a pain in the ass, you don't know how much it costs until the end, and the cab smelled. I can wholeheartedly understand complaints about Uber and Lyft, but I don't understand at all when I sometimes see this collective amnesia about how much taxis sucked before rideshare came on the scene.
  - tyoma 1y ago
    I think its less amnesia and more that many commenters were too young to have experienced pre-Uber taxis: the call for a pickup thats routinely ignored, flailing arms in the cold hoping someone stops, the smelly car, refusal to pick you up because your ride is too short or too long, getting taken for an extended ride to your destination, the credit card machine thats always broken. Oh, and if you want to complain I hope you can make an 8am hearing at the taxi commission in 6 weeks.
  - RandallBrown 1y ago
    > I'm curious as to why that is Seattle has added some extra fees and pay requirements for drivers that drive up the cost of a ride share. In retaliation to these laws, ride share companies have also raised prices. An Uber from my house to the SeaTac airport used to cost about $30 5 or 6 years ago. It's now around $100. A taxi is about $80 now. Paying for parking is cheaper now than either of those options.
- jasode 1y ago
  >, it's actually about 50% cheaper to get a taxi from SeaTac to the city than to take a Lyft or Uber. That type of ride from a "hub" where a bunch of taxis congregate to take the next passenger -- such as SEATAC airport -- is optimal for traditional taxis and can be cheaper. But using Uber for suburb-to-suburb routes away from any hubs is cheaper than taxis and I tried to explain why that happens: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30660517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30660517
  - tekno45 1y ago
    your "hack" is just how it works for food delivery. If you don't leave a tip, they'll ignore it and itll never get picked up.
acdha 1y ago
Where I live, Uber is recognized as the high prices option. Once VCs stopped subsidizing rides prices went up and availability went down - it was a running joke for years that at DCA you’d see people waiting in line for 20 minutes to spend $20 more than hopping in a waiting cab.
- ta1243 1y ago
  Been burnt too often by american taxis that won't take cards or won't give receipts or have adverts on screens as you're travelling.
  - acdha 1y ago
    That’s not a problem here (they have an app, too) but it’s definitely valid for Uber to compete on better service. I am skeptical that they will be able to get the kind of returns which their investors want that way, however.
    - ta1243 1y ago
      I fly into a random city, say Denver. I could start hunting around for a local taxi app, which may or may not work, may or may not have any cars I could get in a waiting taxi at the airport, but then I run into issues with cash etc I could use uber while I'm still collecting my bag and have a known car and known experience waiting for me
      - acdha 1y ago
        Sure, as I said they have a potential edge in service and people who frequently travel to new places. My point was just that it’s not a very big edge: most people are not traveling to new places all of the time and if there’s a big savings they’ll switch. That doesn’t mean that Uber is doomed, just that they’re not a Google/Facebook money printing machine where local competitors can pop up easily.
    - fragmede 1y ago
      they already IPOed so the original investors made out with a ton of money. if you think there's still a version where Uber evaporates overnight, I have some puts to sell you.
piva00 1y ago
Where I live taxis are on par with Uber, sometimes cheaper when Uber has surge prices. We also have Bolt, an European competitor, which is usually 10-40% cheaper than Uber or taxis. Every Uber or Bolt can also operate as a taxi since the regulations stipulate that any private passenger transport service is the same as a taxi, and has to follow the same regulations.

cyberax 1y ago

> They acquired those customers by burning billions of dollars to deliver rides below the cost of providing them. That is exaggerated. Uber was losing something like $0.50-$1 per ride in 2018. Uber/Lyft were (and still mostly are) just _better_ than taxis.

const_cast 1y ago
It’s not exaggerated. Uber was losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year operating. That’s billions. I don’t know if I trust Ubers numbers on this. I don’t know what they’re counting as “cost per ride”. Does engineers salaries factor into that? What about data centers? Advertising? If you factor all of it in, then they’re losing billions.
- cyberax 1y ago
  > It’s not exaggerated. Uber was losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year operating. That’s billions. Well, yes. However, the impact of that on the ride cost is exaggerated. > Does engineers salaries factor into that? What about data centers? Advertising? Yes. > If you factor all of it in, then they’re losing billions. And when you divide it by the number of rides, you get into sub-$1 figures.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - const_cast 1y ago
    > Well, yes. However, the impact of that on the ride cost is exaggerated. Yeah, because they’re losing the money. Meaning YOU’RE not paying it, it’s being lost. Keep in mind this is also with: - uber not providing the capital for their rides. Taxi companies buy taxis, uber says you buy it. - vastly underpaying their work force. - skirting employment laws with gig work - relying on tips! The ride cost doesn’t include tips, despite that being a huge portion of wages!
torginus 1y ago
Uber was a 9 year old company in 2018