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"we strongly recommend against running your own mail server in favor of using a dedicated email deliverability platform" This is ridiculous. We have collective

"we strongly recommend against running your own mail server in favor of using a dedicated email deliverability platform" This is ridiculous. We have collectively surrendered email and became hostages. I'm as guilty as everyone* and don't really see the solution. * most. You're the brave ones.

bell-cot 1y ago
Assume their recommendation is not aimed at you, but at the 99% who like the idea of running their own mail server...but lack the skills and commitment to do that securely, over time. DigitalOcean might not be the target of the resulting spam tsunamis, but they still bear a fair hunk of the "support & consequences" costs.
- kees99 1y ago
  DigitalOcean, or more precisely - some of their customers are the source of quite a few spam tsunamis, at least according to spamtrap data I'm collecting on my mail server. So from that perspective, a big "thank-you" goes out to DO for firewalling off outbound port-25 traffic by default. That said - reading "Even if SMTP were available" and "recommend using SendGrid", it sounds like there is no opt-out from this. Even for customers who would want to self-host a mail server that never sends in bulk. Now that, is reprehensible, and adds yet another brick in the already tall wall that mail duopoly+ (gmail, outlook, and handful others) enjoy.
  - vkaku 1y ago
    Interesting! Please post source.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
joijoj 1y ago
Does it matter that much? If you need 1:1 private comms, personal SSL certs and a Dockerized chat client are available? Email only persists due to nostalgia. We have literally dozens of other methods to sync state between two machines. Private git repo? Private IRC? Note how providers are not blocking other options. Email is inherently insecure due to the header structure, and open to the world by default is an invitation to be misused by spam. Sorry everyone but an "open world" has revealed we're all just biological meat suits everywhere doing human shit, hallucinating there's some culture binding us (which just translates to "practice of a cult"). Breaking Bad ended 10 years ago. Star Wars was decades ago. Email is terrible in many ways. Move along.
- subscribed 1y ago
  How can I move along if EVERY online shop, mechanic, government body or school I tlak with NEEDS my email address to facilitate the contact, conversation or transaction? What do you propose to these who are currently forced to provide email addresses to lead their daily lives uninterrupted? And I'm not asking for the example appropriate for the primary school aged child or a senior living in the care home. Just examples for the normal human adults.
  - kees99 1y ago
    I guess GP meant that online shops, mechanics, government bodies and schools were meant to move along? Not exactly clear where to, though. We don't have another messaging system with quite as wide reach (a.k.a. high value, in terms of Metcalfe's law) as email. Texts(SMS), maybe? But those are not without their own problems - see "green text bubble stigma".

bell-cot 1y ago

Assume their recommendation is not aimed at you, but at the 99% who like the idea of running their own mail server...but lack the skills and commitment to do that securely, over time. DigitalOcean might not be the target of the resulting spam tsunamis, but they still bear a fair hunk of the "support & consequences" costs.

kees99 1y ago
DigitalOcean, or more precisely - some of their customers are the source of quite a few spam tsunamis, at least according to spamtrap data I'm collecting on my mail server. So from that perspective, a big "thank-you" goes out to DO for firewalling off outbound port-25 traffic by default. That said - reading "Even if SMTP were available" and "recommend using SendGrid", it sounds like there is no opt-out from this. Even for customers who would want to self-host a mail server that never sends in bulk. Now that, is reprehensible, and adds yet another brick in the already tall wall that mail duopoly+ (gmail, outlook, and handful others) enjoy.
- vkaku 1y ago
  Interesting! Please post source.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

joijoj 1y ago

Does it matter that much? If you need 1:1 private comms, personal SSL certs and a Dockerized chat client are available? Email only persists due to nostalgia. We have literally dozens of other methods to sync state between two machines. Private git repo? Private IRC? Note how providers are not blocking other options. Email is inherently insecure due to the header structure, and open to the world by default is an invitation to be misused by spam. Sorry everyone but an "open world" has revealed we're all just biological meat suits everywhere doing human shit, hallucinating there's some culture binding us (which just translates to "practice of a cult"). Breaking Bad ended 10 years ago. Star Wars was decades ago. Email is terrible in many ways. Move along.

subscribed 1y ago
How can I move along if EVERY online shop, mechanic, government body or school I tlak with NEEDS my email address to facilitate the contact, conversation or transaction? What do you propose to these who are currently forced to provide email addresses to lead their daily lives uninterrupted? And I'm not asking for the example appropriate for the primary school aged child or a senior living in the care home. Just examples for the normal human adults.
- kees99 1y ago
  I guess GP meant that online shops, mechanics, government bodies and schools were meant to move along? Not exactly clear where to, though. We don't have another messaging system with quite as wide reach (a.k.a. high value, in terms of Metcalfe's law) as email. Texts(SMS), maybe? But those are not without their own problems - see "green text bubble stigma".