10 ms·

The UK is not a functioning democracy, at all.

ohgr 1y ago
Well it is because the judiciary smacked the secrecy side of it down pretty hard to make sure that it was done in public. That's a pretty strong indicator of a functioning democracy.
- rodwyersoftware 1y ago
  The UK has not had any real political activity for 100 years. It's all a show. If the UK represented the British natives then a lot of things would be happening that would get me banned from this website :)
  - ohgr 1y ago
    As a British native I feel well represented. It's not perfect of course. We might take a step back occasionally but this usually results in two steps forward. Some press like only to comment on the backward steps though.
  - pjc50 1y ago
    Sadly, the UK public are pretty authoritarian, especially about things they don't understand like encryption.
  - mattmanser 1y ago
    Do you even know when our National Health Service was created? Or our social security net? When laws were repealed that suppressed minorities, when human rights were added to our legislation? National minimum wage? Freedom of information laws? Hint: All within the last 100 years.
- rapsey 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - dijksterhuis 1y ago
    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office-report-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office... > The two-year study by the Home Office makes very clear that there are no grounds for asserting that Muslim or Pakistani-heritage men are disproportionately engaged in such crimes, and, citing our research, it confirmed the unreliability of the Quilliam claim. white males end up as defendants in CSE cases more often than any other ethnic group https://www.logicallyfacts.com/en/fact-check/no-pakistani-men-dont-commit-80-of-group-rapes-in-the-uk https://www.logicallyfacts.com/en/fact-check/no-pakistani-me... > while white men make up 83 percent of the population, they accounted for 88 percent of the defendants in child sexual abuse cases. see page 38 https://www.csacentre.org.uk/app/uploads/2024/02/Trends-in-Offical-Data-2022-23-FINAL.pdf https://www.csacentre.org.uk/app/uploads/2024/02/Trends-in-O... — oh you edited your post to add more anti-muslim rhetoric. let’s dive into the detail a little > A pre-sentence report will normally be considered necessary if the offender belongs to one (or more) of the following cohorts: > at risk of first custodial sentence and/or at risk of a custodial sentence of 2 years or less (after taking into account any reduction for guilty plea) > a young adult (typically 18-25 years) > female > from an ethnic minority, cultural minority, and/or faith minority community > pregnant or post-natal > sole or primary carer for dependent relatives > Or if the court considers that one or more of the following may apply to the offender: > has disclosed they are transgender > has or may have any addiction issues > has or may have a serious chronic medical condition or physical disability, or mental ill health, learning disabilities (including developmental disorders and neurodiverse conditions) or brain injury/damage > the court considers that the offender is, or there is a risk that they may have been, a victim of: > domestic abuse, physical or sexual abuse, violent or threatening behaviour, coercive or controlling behaviour, economic, psychological, emotional or any other abuse > modern slavery or trafficking, or coercion, grooming, intimidation or exploitation. > This is a non-exhaustive list and a PSR can still be necessary if the individual does not fall into one of these cohorts. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magistrates-court/item/imposition-of-community-and-custodial-sentences-overarching-guideline/#3.%20Pre-sentence%20reports%20(PSRs) https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magi... 1) i dont see the word “muslim” mentioned anywhere 2) i see about 10 other societal groups listed that have nothing to do with religion but sure, let’s keep blaming the muslims for everything, that sounds like a healthy approach to life. — second edit because fuck it. i grew up in an affluent part of the country, a quiet and mostly white countryside town. went to posh schools. most of my first 20 years i didnt spend much time around people of other ethnicities. i get it man. i get that you might be afraid of losing your “identity”. or maybe you’re afraid of the big scary bogeymen on the news. but you don’t have to be afraid. you dont have to be afraid of the bogeymen. the bogeymen are mostly made up stories. you don’t have to be afraid of change. life becomes a hell of a lot more fulfilling without fear.
- AndrewDucker 1y ago
  It's run by a government elected with 34% of the vote. Before that, 43% of the vote. Before that 43%. Before that 37%. None of that sounds like democracy to me.
  - Symbiote 1y ago
    Not all the government is elected. There are several ministers from the House of Lords, who aren't elected by the people. I haven't checked for this Parliament, but for the previous one that included people who had LOST their election to be an MP, but got nominated to the Lords anyway.
  - dijksterhuis 1y ago
    we have a constituency based first past the post system. we vote for a local MP to represent our constituency in the house of commons. first one past the threshold wins and represents our area in the house of commons. each MP gets one vote. one vote in the house of commons for each constituency. so yes. this is possible. because it’s not about total votes — it’s about representing the individual local areas and the people within those areas. labour won a landslide of “areas”. that’s how our system works. just because it doesn’t match what you think democracy should look like doesn’t mean it isn’t democratic. it’s just different. plenty of criticisms exist about our system (esp house of lords). we even tried to have a referendum on first past the post about two decades ago. i voted for AV. but oh well.
    - AndrewDucker 1y ago
      I know how the system works. I don't consider FPTP to be democratic, because it disenfranches large swathes of the population and means that you can rule the country with a massive majority despite only getting 34% of the vote.
      - milesrout 1y ago
        FPP does not disfranchise anyone. If you vote for someone that loses their seat or wins in a landslide your vote still counts.
- milesrout 1y ago
  The judiciary is (thankfully) the most undemocratic institution in Britain. It functions well because it is undemocratic. It has no place being democratic. In no sense does its effectiveness indicate a healthy democracy.
camjw 1y ago
Come on pal.

ohgr 1y ago

Well it is because the judiciary smacked the secrecy side of it down pretty hard to make sure that it was done in public. That's a pretty strong indicator of a functioning democracy.

rodwyersoftware 1y ago
The UK has not had any real political activity for 100 years. It's all a show. If the UK represented the British natives then a lot of things would be happening that would get me banned from this website :)
- ohgr 1y ago
  As a British native I feel well represented. It's not perfect of course. We might take a step back occasionally but this usually results in two steps forward. Some press like only to comment on the backward steps though.
- pjc50 1y ago
  Sadly, the UK public are pretty authoritarian, especially about things they don't understand like encryption.
- mattmanser 1y ago
  Do you even know when our National Health Service was created? Or our social security net? When laws were repealed that suppressed minorities, when human rights were added to our legislation? National minimum wage? Freedom of information laws? Hint: All within the last 100 years.
rapsey 1y ago
[flagged]
- dijksterhuis 1y ago
  https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office-report-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office... > The two-year study by the Home Office makes very clear that there are no grounds for asserting that Muslim or Pakistani-heritage men are disproportionately engaged in such crimes, and, citing our research, it confirmed the unreliability of the Quilliam claim. white males end up as defendants in CSE cases more often than any other ethnic group https://www.logicallyfacts.com/en/fact-check/no-pakistani-men-dont-commit-80-of-group-rapes-in-the-uk https://www.logicallyfacts.com/en/fact-check/no-pakistani-me... > while white men make up 83 percent of the population, they accounted for 88 percent of the defendants in child sexual abuse cases. see page 38 https://www.csacentre.org.uk/app/uploads/2024/02/Trends-in-Offical-Data-2022-23-FINAL.pdf https://www.csacentre.org.uk/app/uploads/2024/02/Trends-in-O... — oh you edited your post to add more anti-muslim rhetoric. let’s dive into the detail a little > A pre-sentence report will normally be considered necessary if the offender belongs to one (or more) of the following cohorts: > at risk of first custodial sentence and/or at risk of a custodial sentence of 2 years or less (after taking into account any reduction for guilty plea) > a young adult (typically 18-25 years) > female > from an ethnic minority, cultural minority, and/or faith minority community > pregnant or post-natal > sole or primary carer for dependent relatives > Or if the court considers that one or more of the following may apply to the offender: > has disclosed they are transgender > has or may have any addiction issues > has or may have a serious chronic medical condition or physical disability, or mental ill health, learning disabilities (including developmental disorders and neurodiverse conditions) or brain injury/damage > the court considers that the offender is, or there is a risk that they may have been, a victim of: > domestic abuse, physical or sexual abuse, violent or threatening behaviour, coercive or controlling behaviour, economic, psychological, emotional or any other abuse > modern slavery or trafficking, or coercion, grooming, intimidation or exploitation. > This is a non-exhaustive list and a PSR can still be necessary if the individual does not fall into one of these cohorts. https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magistrates-court/item/imposition-of-community-and-custodial-sentences-overarching-guideline/#3.%20Pre-sentence%20reports%20(PSRs) https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/overarching-guides/magi... 1) i dont see the word “muslim” mentioned anywhere 2) i see about 10 other societal groups listed that have nothing to do with religion but sure, let’s keep blaming the muslims for everything, that sounds like a healthy approach to life. — second edit because fuck it. i grew up in an affluent part of the country, a quiet and mostly white countryside town. went to posh schools. most of my first 20 years i didnt spend much time around people of other ethnicities. i get it man. i get that you might be afraid of losing your “identity”. or maybe you’re afraid of the big scary bogeymen on the news. but you don’t have to be afraid. you dont have to be afraid of the bogeymen. the bogeymen are mostly made up stories. you don’t have to be afraid of change. life becomes a hell of a lot more fulfilling without fear.
AndrewDucker 1y ago
It's run by a government elected with 34% of the vote. Before that, 43% of the vote. Before that 43%. Before that 37%. None of that sounds like democracy to me.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  Not all the government is elected. There are several ministers from the House of Lords, who aren't elected by the people. I haven't checked for this Parliament, but for the previous one that included people who had LOST their election to be an MP, but got nominated to the Lords anyway.
- dijksterhuis 1y ago
  we have a constituency based first past the post system. we vote for a local MP to represent our constituency in the house of commons. first one past the threshold wins and represents our area in the house of commons. each MP gets one vote. one vote in the house of commons for each constituency. so yes. this is possible. because it’s not about total votes — it’s about representing the individual local areas and the people within those areas. labour won a landslide of “areas”. that’s how our system works. just because it doesn’t match what you think democracy should look like doesn’t mean it isn’t democratic. it’s just different. plenty of criticisms exist about our system (esp house of lords). we even tried to have a referendum on first past the post about two decades ago. i voted for AV. but oh well.
  - AndrewDucker 1y ago
    I know how the system works. I don't consider FPTP to be democratic, because it disenfranches large swathes of the population and means that you can rule the country with a massive majority despite only getting 34% of the vote.
    - milesrout 1y ago
      FPP does not disfranchise anyone. If you vote for someone that loses their seat or wins in a landslide your vote still counts.
milesrout 1y ago
The judiciary is (thankfully) the most undemocratic institution in Britain. It functions well because it is undemocratic. It has no place being democratic. In no sense does its effectiveness indicate a healthy democracy.

camjw 1y ago

Come on pal.