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Most new frameworks start as the "lightweight" option to whatever more mature options exist at the time. This is no argument for adoption. Please post again 10

Most new frameworks start as the "lightweight" option to whatever more mature options exist at the time. This is no argument for adoption. Please post again 10 years from now after you have added all the bloat your users request and handled all the edge cases you don't yet understand. If you are still lighter than a react button...that will be news worthy.

is_true 1y ago
I feel the same. I started using svelte to build widgets with few requirements that were deployed as web components, it was great for that.
iammrpayments 1y ago
I don’t think React has ever been considered lightweight, judging from the mostly negative reactions from this website when it first came out.
- dmix 1y ago
  JS frameworks have often valued DX first over what it outputs. Frontend devs also frequently care more about a) their own tooling and b) how it looks, to a much higher priority than the performance and stability of their output. At least from my own experience in the community :)
  - joquarky 1y ago
    Oh my god, yes this is hitting the nail on the head in a way I hadn't thought before. The bloat comes from the discipline (or lack of) more than the framework. IMO, those who have only worked in React tend to be unfamiliar with the layers of native capability that React is built upon, and so they are stuck in the React bubble unless they want to learn a ton of (admittedly crufty, but useful) web fundamentals.
mplanchard 1y ago
So, nothing is worthy of discussion or can claim any benefits over the incumbents until it has become an incumbent itself? How is it supposed to attract the necessary users to get bloated if they can’t talk about it in relation to the established players?
- canterburry 1y ago
  All I am saying is that being lightweight, when you have been around for less time than a mature solution, is a mute point. It's a cop out way to differentiate because you are clearly not comparing apples to apples. You have a fraction of the features and a fraction of the bug fixes. You are trying to make it sound like you are a 1:1 replacement, when you are not.
  - floydnoel 1y ago
    FYI, you probably meant to say “a moot point.” https://www.grammarly.com/blog/vocabulary/moot-point/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/vocabulary/moot-point/
    - canterburry 1y ago
      Touché
internetter 1y ago
Solid.js is doing amazing w/re to its bundle size. Its been in development for something between 6-9 years depending on how you count and it is still very very slim.

is_true 1y ago

I feel the same. I started using svelte to build widgets with few requirements that were deployed as web components, it was great for that.

iammrpayments 1y ago

I don’t think React has ever been considered lightweight, judging from the mostly negative reactions from this website when it first came out.

dmix 1y ago
JS frameworks have often valued DX first over what it outputs. Frontend devs also frequently care more about a) their own tooling and b) how it looks, to a much higher priority than the performance and stability of their output. At least from my own experience in the community :)
- joquarky 1y ago
  Oh my god, yes this is hitting the nail on the head in a way I hadn't thought before. The bloat comes from the discipline (or lack of) more than the framework. IMO, those who have only worked in React tend to be unfamiliar with the layers of native capability that React is built upon, and so they are stuck in the React bubble unless they want to learn a ton of (admittedly crufty, but useful) web fundamentals.

mplanchard 1y ago

So, nothing is worthy of discussion or can claim any benefits over the incumbents until it has become an incumbent itself? How is it supposed to attract the necessary users to get bloated if they can’t talk about it in relation to the established players?

canterburry 1y ago
All I am saying is that being lightweight, when you have been around for less time than a mature solution, is a mute point. It's a cop out way to differentiate because you are clearly not comparing apples to apples. You have a fraction of the features and a fraction of the bug fixes. You are trying to make it sound like you are a 1:1 replacement, when you are not.
- floydnoel 1y ago
  FYI, you probably meant to say “a moot point.” https://www.grammarly.com/blog/vocabulary/moot-point/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/vocabulary/moot-point/
  - canterburry 1y ago
    Touché

internetter 1y ago

Solid.js is doing amazing w/re to its bundle size. Its been in development for something between 6-9 years depending on how you count and it is still very very slim.