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I would appreciate a broader examination of how this site politics function because no one here seems to understand the difference between liberals and leftists

I would appreciate a broader examination of how this site politics function because no one here seems to understand the difference between liberals and leftists.

wormlord 1y ago
This site is mostly wealthy and older who have benefitted from the neoliberal status quo. It's why many commenters can shrug off the insane shit happening like opaque deportations of random people to a fucking concentration camp in El Salvador, it only affects people on the margins who they think they are very far removed from. In wealthy urban areas there are a lot of liberals who don't have a materialist basis for their views and are hypocritical, so the more reactionary on this site think that these pearl-clutching libs are the end all be all of left-wing politics. Meanwhile actual leftists dont really differentiate between ethnic supremacists and YIMBY liberals because they both ultimately support the same outcomes. I am also from a petit bourgeois background but being younger I think it was very clear that the direction we were heading in was not sustainable. There is no path that allows for me to have stable finances (enough money to buy a house and pay for my parents retirement) and also be spiritually fulfilled. The only way I can save up the money to take care of the people around me is to sell my mind, body, and soul to the machine (even then who says the current administration wont tank the stock market and erase all my savings). I think even for Gen X'ers this was the case, it was just easier to keep their heads down since the polycrisis was still a few decades out and would not yet seem "real". Even as a relatively successful zoomer I have to walk a fine line of grinding away at my day job, and doing the community-oriented work that fulfills me spiritually. The market signals that stuff like home ownership and having a family is not "efficient", so I don't bother. Anyways, there's a real disconnect and I'm not sure what it would take for the older and wealthier folks on here to open their eyes. If history is anything to go by they most likely never will.
- dudefeliciano 1y ago
  > I'm not sure what it would take for the older and wealthier folks on here to open their eyes. I think there are plenty of wealthy folks who understand the benfits of living in a more equal society, and that would gladly pay their fair share to live in such a society. The problem is they are not enough, and worse yet the middle class and what remains of the working class are actively pushing propaganda that goes directly against their own interests (perhaps because they think that one day they will too be millionaires).
  - wormlord 1y ago
    Of course wealthy or "petit bourgeois" can be leftists or Marxists or whatever, they have typically made up the intelligentsia of most left-wing revolutions historically. But the material interests of the wealthy align with the status quo that allowed them to acquire their wealth. This becomes less true as the "polycrisis" of climate change intensifies, since at some point there will be no future to enjoy, regardless of how much money you have. Also I will argue that the reactionary propaganda comes from the top-down, not the bottom-up.
    - dudefeliciano 1y ago
      The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though, they are actively trying to dismantle the remnants of the social/welfare state. I would argue that it is exactly that social system that allowed them to become wealthy, and they want to hold and hoard the wealth, stifling economic mobility and increasing the divide. This is stupid though as it increases social tensions and IMO puts them even more at risk of losing their wealth. The reactionary propaganda does come from the top. Case in point: Elons “X the everything app” and him promoting afd - one has to wonder why he cares so much about immigrants. The answer seems simple, if they are not the target, he is.
      - wormlord 1y ago
        > The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though I agree with everything you said, of course there are factions among the wealthy. Some want to keep doing business as usual liberalism, I think others anticipate climate change and want to pivot to a more violent system that allows them to horde even more wealth. At the end of the day though, all factions of the wealthy have solidarity with each other when it matters.

I would appreciate a broader examination of how this site politics function because no one here seems to understand the difference between liberals and leftists.

wormlord 1y ago

This site is mostly wealthy and older who have benefitted from the neoliberal status quo. It's why many commenters can shrug off the insane shit happening like opaque deportations of random people to a fucking concentration camp in El Salvador, it only affects people on the margins who they think they are very far removed from. In wealthy urban areas there are a lot of liberals who don't have a materialist basis for their views and are hypocritical, so the more reactionary on this site think that these pearl-clutching libs are the end all be all of left-wing politics. Meanwhile actual leftists dont really differentiate between ethnic supremacists and YIMBY liberals because they both ultimately support the same outcomes. I am also from a petit bourgeois background but being younger I think it was very clear that the direction we were heading in was not sustainable. There is no path that allows for me to have stable finances (enough money to buy a house and pay for my parents retirement) and also be spiritually fulfilled. The only way I can save up the money to take care of the people around me is to sell my mind, body, and soul to the machine (even then who says the current administration wont tank the stock market and erase all my savings). I think even for Gen X'ers this was the case, it was just easier to keep their heads down since the polycrisis was still a few decades out and would not yet seem "real". Even as a relatively successful zoomer I have to walk a fine line of grinding away at my day job, and doing the community-oriented work that fulfills me spiritually. The market signals that stuff like home ownership and having a family is not "efficient", so I don't bother. Anyways, there's a real disconnect and I'm not sure what it would take for the older and wealthier folks on here to open their eyes. If history is anything to go by they most likely never will.

dudefeliciano 1y ago
> I'm not sure what it would take for the older and wealthier folks on here to open their eyes. I think there are plenty of wealthy folks who understand the benfits of living in a more equal society, and that would gladly pay their fair share to live in such a society. The problem is they are not enough, and worse yet the middle class and what remains of the working class are actively pushing propaganda that goes directly against their own interests (perhaps because they think that one day they will too be millionaires).
- wormlord 1y ago
  Of course wealthy or "petit bourgeois" can be leftists or Marxists or whatever, they have typically made up the intelligentsia of most left-wing revolutions historically. But the material interests of the wealthy align with the status quo that allowed them to acquire their wealth. This becomes less true as the "polycrisis" of climate change intensifies, since at some point there will be no future to enjoy, regardless of how much money you have. Also I will argue that the reactionary propaganda comes from the top-down, not the bottom-up.
  - dudefeliciano 1y ago
    The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though, they are actively trying to dismantle the remnants of the social/welfare state. I would argue that it is exactly that social system that allowed them to become wealthy, and they want to hold and hoard the wealth, stifling economic mobility and increasing the divide. This is stupid though as it increases social tensions and IMO puts them even more at risk of losing their wealth. The reactionary propaganda does come from the top. Case in point: Elons “X the everything app” and him promoting afd - one has to wonder why he cares so much about immigrants. The answer seems simple, if they are not the target, he is.
    - wormlord 1y ago
      > The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though I agree with everything you said, of course there are factions among the wealthy. Some want to keep doing business as usual liberalism, I think others anticipate climate change and want to pivot to a more violent system that allows them to horde even more wealth. At the end of the day though, all factions of the wealthy have solidarity with each other when it matters.