5 ms·

This tired old contention that some great historical thinker is somehow single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation is nothing more than railing ag

This tired old contention that some great historical thinker is somehow single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation is nothing more than railing against intellect itself.

DeathArrow 1y ago
My conjecture isn't Hegel is single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation. After all I don't have a reason to think he intended that, nor do I think civilisation will necasarily fall. Most villains of the thought, ideologues and philosophers are basing their operas on Hegel's. All I am saying Hegel established a framework which eased the works of some scum.
- nonrandomstring 1y ago
  You might enjoy Rick Roderick's "Masters of Suspicion" where he talks about the influence (and perceived influence) of Nietzsche, Freud, Marx and some other individuals credited with "changing the world". "You notice I haven’t given an analysis of the Enlightenment but of modernity, of modernisation, of the advance of capital, because four pedants don’t make an age. And two or three weird philosophers don’t give birth to a century of unreason. You know, Nietzsche didn’t, you know, from his drawing room give birth to a century of cannonade, slaughter, concentration camps, CIA subterfuge, the raping and the murdering of nuns, the bombing of continents, the despoiling of beaches and the ruin of a planet! Four or five pedants do not have that much power, and never have. That’s just a sort of bugbear. They didn’t 'unleash unreason on the world' Jesus... how crazy can some people get. I mean, even in the postmodern world you shouldn't be that crazy, to say that three or four pedants invented this stuff. " -- R. Roderick Nietzsche’s Progeny (1991)
  - cess11 1y ago
    Most likely they won't, since Roderick openly and efficiently argues against "paleoconservatives" and the like.
  - alabastervlog 1y ago
    This is likely a use of "pedant" in the more precise pre-vulgarization sense, probably, with a stronger suggestion of "school teacherly" or "insularly academic" than "nit-picking know-it-all". Might help readers follow it.
username332211 1y ago
It is precisely the opposite. A world where Karl Marx isn't responsible for millions of deaths is a world where the existence of intellectuals is ultimately pointless. There, a wise potentate could send philosophers into labor camps and he'd only benefit from the elimination of waste. If you believe that ideas matter, then you should allow for spectacularly bad ideas to have spectacularly bad real world consequences.
- facile3232 1y ago
  > If ideas matter, then spectacularly bad ideas should have spectacularly bad real world consequences. to me this seems to imply ideas don't matter, or we wouldn't be living in a market-oriented society. I suppose there's still room for global warming to demonstrate your point.
- nonrandomstring 1y ago
  Of course ideas matter and have consequences. The mistake is to identify them with individual responsibility. Do you blame Newton every time a vase falls off a shelf?
  - ourmandave 1y ago
    In hindsight, naming my cat Newton may have been a bad idea.
  - HKH2 1y ago
    Newton is not responsible for gravity because he didn't create it.
    - BuyMyBitcoins 1y ago
      Nevertheless, as an entity with mass Isaac Newton was complicit in contributing towards gravity’s tyrannical effects. In fact, his corpse continues to exert a gravitational pull to this day. /s
- vintermann 1y ago

This tired old contention that some great historical thinker is somehow single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation is nothing more than railing against intellect itself.

DeathArrow 1y ago

My conjecture isn't Hegel is single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation. After all I don't have a reason to think he intended that, nor do I think civilisation will necasarily fall. Most villains of the thought, ideologues and philosophers are basing their operas on Hegel's. All I am saying Hegel established a framework which eased the works of some scum.

nonrandomstring 1y ago
You might enjoy Rick Roderick's "Masters of Suspicion" where he talks about the influence (and perceived influence) of Nietzsche, Freud, Marx and some other individuals credited with "changing the world". "You notice I haven’t given an analysis of the Enlightenment but of modernity, of modernisation, of the advance of capital, because four pedants don’t make an age. And two or three weird philosophers don’t give birth to a century of unreason. You know, Nietzsche didn’t, you know, from his drawing room give birth to a century of cannonade, slaughter, concentration camps, CIA subterfuge, the raping and the murdering of nuns, the bombing of continents, the despoiling of beaches and the ruin of a planet! Four or five pedants do not have that much power, and never have. That’s just a sort of bugbear. They didn’t 'unleash unreason on the world' Jesus... how crazy can some people get. I mean, even in the postmodern world you shouldn't be that crazy, to say that three or four pedants invented this stuff. " -- R. Roderick Nietzsche’s Progeny (1991)
- cess11 1y ago
  Most likely they won't, since Roderick openly and efficiently argues against "paleoconservatives" and the like.
- alabastervlog 1y ago
  This is likely a use of "pedant" in the more precise pre-vulgarization sense, probably, with a stronger suggestion of "school teacherly" or "insularly academic" than "nit-picking know-it-all". Might help readers follow it.

username332211 1y ago

It is precisely the opposite. A world where Karl Marx isn't responsible for millions of deaths is a world where the existence of intellectuals is ultimately pointless. There, a wise potentate could send philosophers into labor camps and he'd only benefit from the elimination of waste. If you believe that ideas matter, then you should allow for spectacularly bad ideas to have spectacularly bad real world consequences.

facile3232 1y ago
> If ideas matter, then spectacularly bad ideas should have spectacularly bad real world consequences. to me this seems to imply ideas don't matter, or we wouldn't be living in a market-oriented society. I suppose there's still room for global warming to demonstrate your point.
nonrandomstring 1y ago
Of course ideas matter and have consequences. The mistake is to identify them with individual responsibility. Do you blame Newton every time a vase falls off a shelf?
- ourmandave 1y ago
  In hindsight, naming my cat Newton may have been a bad idea.
- HKH2 1y ago
  Newton is not responsible for gravity because he didn't create it.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 1y ago
    Nevertheless, as an entity with mass Isaac Newton was complicit in contributing towards gravity’s tyrannical effects. In fact, his corpse continues to exert a gravitational pull to this day. /s
vintermann 1y ago