8 ms·

Illegals immigrants are not owed ‘due process.’ They’re owed a swift exit.

atemerev 1y ago
Rule of law is universal. If they are illegal immigrants, it should be established by law and proper legal procedures. Otherwise, it is you who can be an illegal immigrant tomorrow, just because some dictator says it. You can prove otherwise? Good luck, you are an illegal immigrant, you can't.
- throwaway173738 1y ago
  In point of fact they are already trying to take away birthright citizenship. So clearly this is an endgame for them. “Oh that was a pretty critical tweet a few years ago citizen. Bring me documentation that one of your ancestors passed through Ellis Island from this brightly lit cell or we’ll deport you.”
  - togetheragainor 1y ago
    Do you know that the majority of countries around the world don’t have birthright citizenship? It’s an anomaly pretty much limited to the Americas. Because it’s stupid and easily exploitable. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/places_where_birthright_citizenship_is_based_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/places_wher...
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      If a demacracy, you can change this law. If you are not in a democracy, you can just have Dear Leader give edicts.
    - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
      Birthright citizenship has been enshrined in the US Constitution for nearly 160 years. Calling it into question is a massive attack on the basic Constitutional framework of the country, and will immediately affect tens of millions of Americans. Are you a citizen? Sorry, you'll have to prove that your parents were citizens, and that their parents were citizens, and that their parents were citizens. It's a nightmare.
      - togetheragainor 1y ago
        Why would you claim that existing citizenship would be revoked? Ex post facto laws are incredibly rare in the US, and the executive order explicitly said it “shall apply only to persons who are born within the United States after 30 days from the date of this order.” Also, why are you implying that the US Constitution is immutable? Birthright citizenship was enacted by the 14th amendment, which as the name implies, was a change to our “enshrined US Constitution.” The founding fathers themselves passed amendments. They recognized that no constitution could possibly anticipate every future circumstance or challenge that a nation might face. They viewed this as a feature, not a bug.
        DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
        The Trump administration is claiming that the 14th Amendment does not confer birthright citizenship. In their view, no ex post facto law is needed. With that logic, they can argue that tens of millions of Americans never legitimately obtained citizenship. Stephen Miller, Trump's chief advisor on immigration, has promised to start aggressively de-naturalizing US citizens. This is how these people talk, and it has to be taken seriously. > the executive order explicitly said it “shall apply only ... The very fact that the President of the US is trying to abrogate a Constitutional right by executive order is incredibly alarming. Trump started with this order. If he's successful, he won't stop there. You're trusting in his own self-restraint, which is very unwise. > Birthright citizenship was enacted by the 14th amendment, which as the name implies, was a change to our “enshrined US Constitution.” Birthright citizenship was the norm in the US since the founding. The 14th Amendment formally guaranteed what was already the status quo, and made sure that it was applied without regard to race. The Supreme Court's majority opinion in the Kim Wong Ark case has a good discussion of this.
actionfromafar 1y ago
Agreed. I have here in this document that you are an illegal immigrant. You are not you say? I'm sorry, you're not owned any due process. Swift exit with you.
- togetheragainor 1y ago
  It’s not actually that hard to verify whether someone is a U.S. citizen. Despite what they’d like you to believe, it does not require months of detention, or release into the country on blind faith that you’ll show up for a court hearing in a year.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    That still sounds like "process" of some kind, maybe of the "due" kind. That's not for you. On the bus with you.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    [flagged]
AndrewDucker 1y ago
Due process is how you check that they are both immigrants and did so illegally.

Rule of law is universal. If they are illegal immigrants, it should be established by law and proper legal procedures. Otherwise, it is you who can be an illegal immigrant tomorrow, just because some dictator says it. You can prove otherwise? Good luck, you are an illegal immigrant, you can't.

throwaway173738 1y ago
In point of fact they are already trying to take away birthright citizenship. So clearly this is an endgame for them. “Oh that was a pretty critical tweet a few years ago citizen. Bring me documentation that one of your ancestors passed through Ellis Island from this brightly lit cell or we’ll deport you.”
- togetheragainor 1y ago
  Do you know that the majority of countries around the world don’t have birthright citizenship? It’s an anomaly pretty much limited to the Americas. Because it’s stupid and easily exploitable. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/places_where_birthright_citizenship_is_based_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nn7evq/places_wher...
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    If a demacracy, you can change this law. If you are not in a democracy, you can just have Dear Leader give edicts.
  - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
    Birthright citizenship has been enshrined in the US Constitution for nearly 160 years. Calling it into question is a massive attack on the basic Constitutional framework of the country, and will immediately affect tens of millions of Americans. Are you a citizen? Sorry, you'll have to prove that your parents were citizens, and that their parents were citizens, and that their parents were citizens. It's a nightmare.
    - togetheragainor 1y ago
      Why would you claim that existing citizenship would be revoked? Ex post facto laws are incredibly rare in the US, and the executive order explicitly said it “shall apply only to persons who are born within the United States after 30 days from the date of this order.” Also, why are you implying that the US Constitution is immutable? Birthright citizenship was enacted by the 14th amendment, which as the name implies, was a change to our “enshrined US Constitution.” The founding fathers themselves passed amendments. They recognized that no constitution could possibly anticipate every future circumstance or challenge that a nation might face. They viewed this as a feature, not a bug.
      - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
        The Trump administration is claiming that the 14th Amendment does not confer birthright citizenship. In their view, no ex post facto law is needed. With that logic, they can argue that tens of millions of Americans never legitimately obtained citizenship. Stephen Miller, Trump's chief advisor on immigration, has promised to start aggressively de-naturalizing US citizens. This is how these people talk, and it has to be taken seriously. > the executive order explicitly said it “shall apply only ... The very fact that the President of the US is trying to abrogate a Constitutional right by executive order is incredibly alarming. Trump started with this order. If he's successful, he won't stop there. You're trusting in his own self-restraint, which is very unwise. > Birthright citizenship was enacted by the 14th amendment, which as the name implies, was a change to our “enshrined US Constitution.” Birthright citizenship was the norm in the US since the founding. The 14th Amendment formally guaranteed what was already the status quo, and made sure that it was applied without regard to race. The Supreme Court's majority opinion in the Kim Wong Ark case has a good discussion of this.

actionfromafar 1y ago

Agreed. I have here in this document that you are an illegal immigrant. You are not you say? I'm sorry, you're not owned any due process. Swift exit with you.

togetheragainor 1y ago
It’s not actually that hard to verify whether someone is a U.S. citizen. Despite what they’d like you to believe, it does not require months of detention, or release into the country on blind faith that you’ll show up for a court hearing in a year.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  That still sounds like "process" of some kind, maybe of the "due" kind. That's not for you. On the bus with you.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  [flagged]

AndrewDucker 1y ago

Due process is how you check that they are both immigrants and did so illegally.