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Anyone who might dismiss this as being just a few isolated cases — or who think it is desirable to just remove political opponents from the equation — should th

Anyone who might dismiss this as being just a few isolated cases — or who think it is desirable to just remove political opponents from the equation — should think long and hard about what it will actually take to maintain this kind of “criminalisation of dissent” over the long term… escalation is inevitable. There is clearly an intentional narrative being pushed that defines anyone who disagrees with the current administration’s ideology as an enemy who should be punished. Even if the risk to any one person is currently relatively small, just the threat itself will have profound effects on individual’s decisions. A massive brain drain seems inevitable but such a war on free speech will also radicalise people, even if it starts only in whispers. That will likely necessitate further oppressive measures to “stamp it out” and so forth, creating a vicious cycle. With each iteration the stakes increase, justifying increasingly violent measures & countermeasures on both sides, further increasing the consequences of — and the need avoid — actually being held accountable for those actions…

throwfree 1y ago
[dead]
yyyk 1y ago
[flagged]
- bhouston 1y ago
  > This had already happened for a long while in the US, it just used slightly different means like protests, cancellation or boycotts, just the victims were from the other side. It sounds like this is viewed as revenge? The trend of using state power as revenge against groups one doesn't like is problematic and can be escalatory. As it escalates, eventually groups will fear the loss state power and that can lead to the end of democracy.
  - ptero 1y ago
    I see it not as revenge but as actions of a deeply broken system. Which broke well before the last elections. We cannot just wish the current administration away. It is the result of the fact that the US system is seen as broken by many outside of coastal elites. And that they do not like being trodden on in the names of covid, climate or equity. The sooner the opponents of the current administration start working on issues that matter to people they lost (instead of going further left and screaming louder), the less damage Trump can inflict. My 2c.
    - bhouston 1y ago
      > The sooner the opponents of the current administration ...instead of going further left and screaming louder), the less damage Trump can inflict. My 2c. I think the left may see that being conciliatory and moving to the center isn't the way to win. Trump didn't do that and it worked. I think people see that Bernie and AOC are the only politicians on the left that people are actually excited about. They can do the Trump playbook but from the left. Run as something new and untried. Otherwise the left just becomes Trump-lite, undifferentiated and not as good as the original. I think when people view the system as broken, they want to try new things. So be something new.
      - ptero 1y ago
        Maybe. Time in opposition, when well spent, is the most effective way to revive a party. Although I think AOC and Bernie fire up their own base, the people who do not need firing up and will vote for the left anyway. I think going harder left will likely alienate people whom the democrats recently lost and a more centrist agenda can attract more people repelled by Trump’s antics. I am not a politician, but if left goes farther left I personally will be sitting out the next election regardless of how crazy Donald gets.
        SauciestGNU 1y ago
        This is really amusing to me. I in no way want to diminish your argument or beliefs, but the right are replaying the literal Nazi playbook with abductions of "undesirables" and using state power against political dissidents, but some people will sit that out and implicitly endorse *literal* Nazis because the left asked people to respect trans people's gender identity or whatever the particular beef is.
- freehorse 1y ago
  Whatever one may think about them, "protests, cancellation or boycotts" are not anywhere close to being governmental actions as those discussed here, so I would not call that "already happened" with "slightly different means".
- davidgrenier 1y ago
  There's only one "other side" in this, it's the American people.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Frieren 1y ago
  Citizens protests = Government oppression Is that your opinion? Just let me tell you that I politely disagree with your weird assessment.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    As does the Constitution, of course.
- regularjack 1y ago
  I don't understand how someone can legitimate think this.
unraveller 1y ago
What is a Culture War?
bko 1y ago
I'm concerned about this as well. If this keeps progressing, we could see a monoculture develop among elite institutions and media where the shots are being called by three letter agencies. We could get to a place where federal agencies are working directly with social media companies to coordinate censorship of dissent and set speech guidelines. If they don't oblige they'll be threatened with arbitrary enforcement and getting dragged out in front of Congress. Eventually there could be an entire political capture of these social media companies, universities, journalists, NGOS etc where 90%+ of its employees subscribe to one political party . But it gets even worse. If this continues we could see activist judges try to throw political rivals in jail. They would even change the law in order to try to get them to go to prison, combining misdemeanors into felonies. And this says nothing about the rhetoric. By casting political opponents as villains, this invites assassination attempts and general lawlessness to intimidate people perceived as not falling in line. By this point the media will be complicit so there will be no investigation into these activities. Even a failed assassination attempt would be at most a few day story with no reporting on motive or coordination. I too am very concerned about all of this.
- cogman10 1y ago
  So the final solution is a masked police force abducting people off the streets and rushing them onto a flight to a death camp in El Salvador? I get you are being cute, but let's be real. Nothing "the left" did compares to this.
  - bko 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ttyprintk 1y ago
      This comment is propaganda. Protests can wave the Palestinian flag as protected speech. On Jan 6, the appearance of support for Camp Auschwitz was also protected speech.
      - 1y ago
cheema33 1y ago
All of this seems to borrow ideas from Putin's playbook. I never realized how strong of an appetite certain segment of US population has for authoritarianism.
- te_chris 1y ago
  There was a survey done recently and the GOP is about as rightwing and authoritarian in outlook as the Russians. Miles beyond most other right wing parties. https://on.ft.com/4iqh3qA https://on.ft.com/4iqh3qA

throwfree 1y ago

[dead]

yyyk 1y ago

[flagged]

bhouston 1y ago
> This had already happened for a long while in the US, it just used slightly different means like protests, cancellation or boycotts, just the victims were from the other side. It sounds like this is viewed as revenge? The trend of using state power as revenge against groups one doesn't like is problematic and can be escalatory. As it escalates, eventually groups will fear the loss state power and that can lead to the end of democracy.
- ptero 1y ago
  I see it not as revenge but as actions of a deeply broken system. Which broke well before the last elections. We cannot just wish the current administration away. It is the result of the fact that the US system is seen as broken by many outside of coastal elites. And that they do not like being trodden on in the names of covid, climate or equity. The sooner the opponents of the current administration start working on issues that matter to people they lost (instead of going further left and screaming louder), the less damage Trump can inflict. My 2c.
  - bhouston 1y ago
    > The sooner the opponents of the current administration ...instead of going further left and screaming louder), the less damage Trump can inflict. My 2c. I think the left may see that being conciliatory and moving to the center isn't the way to win. Trump didn't do that and it worked. I think people see that Bernie and AOC are the only politicians on the left that people are actually excited about. They can do the Trump playbook but from the left. Run as something new and untried. Otherwise the left just becomes Trump-lite, undifferentiated and not as good as the original. I think when people view the system as broken, they want to try new things. So be something new.
    - ptero 1y ago
      Maybe. Time in opposition, when well spent, is the most effective way to revive a party. Although I think AOC and Bernie fire up their own base, the people who do not need firing up and will vote for the left anyway. I think going harder left will likely alienate people whom the democrats recently lost and a more centrist agenda can attract more people repelled by Trump’s antics. I am not a politician, but if left goes farther left I personally will be sitting out the next election regardless of how crazy Donald gets.
      - SauciestGNU 1y ago
        This is really amusing to me. I in no way want to diminish your argument or beliefs, but the right are replaying the literal Nazi playbook with abductions of "undesirables" and using state power against political dissidents, but some people will sit that out and implicitly endorse *literal* Nazis because the left asked people to respect trans people's gender identity or whatever the particular beef is.
freehorse 1y ago
Whatever one may think about them, "protests, cancellation or boycotts" are not anywhere close to being governmental actions as those discussed here, so I would not call that "already happened" with "slightly different means".
davidgrenier 1y ago
There's only one "other side" in this, it's the American people.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Frieren 1y ago
Citizens protests = Government oppression Is that your opinion? Just let me tell you that I politely disagree with your weird assessment.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  As does the Constitution, of course.
regularjack 1y ago
I don't understand how someone can legitimate think this.

unraveller 1y ago

What is a Culture War?

bko 1y ago

I'm concerned about this as well. If this keeps progressing, we could see a monoculture develop among elite institutions and media where the shots are being called by three letter agencies. We could get to a place where federal agencies are working directly with social media companies to coordinate censorship of dissent and set speech guidelines. If they don't oblige they'll be threatened with arbitrary enforcement and getting dragged out in front of Congress. Eventually there could be an entire political capture of these social media companies, universities, journalists, NGOS etc where 90%+ of its employees subscribe to one political party . But it gets even worse. If this continues we could see activist judges try to throw political rivals in jail. They would even change the law in order to try to get them to go to prison, combining misdemeanors into felonies. And this says nothing about the rhetoric. By casting political opponents as villains, this invites assassination attempts and general lawlessness to intimidate people perceived as not falling in line. By this point the media will be complicit so there will be no investigation into these activities. Even a failed assassination attempt would be at most a few day story with no reporting on motive or coordination. I too am very concerned about all of this.

cogman10 1y ago
So the final solution is a masked police force abducting people off the streets and rushing them onto a flight to a death camp in El Salvador? I get you are being cute, but let's be real. Nothing "the left" did compares to this.
- bko 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ttyprintk 1y ago
    This comment is propaganda. Protests can wave the Palestinian flag as protected speech. On Jan 6, the appearance of support for Camp Auschwitz was also protected speech.
    - 1y ago

cheema33 1y ago

All of this seems to borrow ideas from Putin's playbook. I never realized how strong of an appetite certain segment of US population has for authoritarianism.

te_chris 1y ago
There was a survey done recently and the GOP is about as rightwing and authoritarian in outlook as the Russians. Miles beyond most other right wing parties. https://on.ft.com/4iqh3qA https://on.ft.com/4iqh3qA