20 ms·

It's amazing how understated some parts are. Like they just casually mention > Like most Texas county judges, he does not have a law degree. I'm sorry, what?

It's amazing how understated some parts are. Like they just casually mention > Like most Texas county judges, he does not have a law degree. I'm sorry, what? Anyone off the street can be a judge? That one line begs soo many questions, and at least some outrage, which is simply glossed over. Doing my own research, I guess I see why it's glossed over, because apparently this isn't uncommon - a quick search says that only 28 states require judges presiding over misdemeanors have a law degree. In 14 of the remaining 22, you can request a new trial from a lawyer-judge if you receive a jail sentence from a non lawyer-judge. I take it for granted, to me it's common sense, that a judge should a law degree. I mean, how can one preside over and act as arbiter in legal matters without knowing the law?

ranger_danger 1y ago
Some lower level judges in Texas are not required to have a law degree. https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1454620/judge-qualifications-and-selection-chart_07262022.pdf https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1454620/judge-qualifications-...
FilosofumRex 1y ago
The jurors are the fact finders (if it's a jury trial). They don't need to know the law, it will be explained to them by the judge. In a bench trial, the judge is both the fact finder and the law interpreter. The argument in favor of non-lawyer judges is that for misdemeanor cases the facts dominate the law, ie whom do you believe, not what's larceny or drug dealing.
db48x 1y ago
Remember that a degree is only a credential, and people without the credential can still be good at their job. What you need to be a judge is knowledge, not a credential.
- Vilian 1y ago
  It's because this type that anti-intelectualism that make USA justice system seems like a circus, and the best clown, the one that convince the public win
- ddtaylor 1y ago
  The Bar exam is supposed to be a legal litmus test of some kind
  - db48x 1y ago
    A lot of court functions don’t involve lawyers at all. Small Claims courts, traffic courts, etc, etc. States that allow judges without a law degree are using them in these courts.
    - ddtaylor 1y ago
      Small claims courts, traffic courts and every other area of the legal apparatus should not be wield by potentially incompetent people. We already have enough problems with these swords when being held by competent people.
- mcherm 1y ago
  > people without the credential can still be good at their job Yes, and some can be very bad at their job. The goal of requiring one to pass a bar exam in order to practice law is to minimize the number of practicioners who are horribly incompetent, because of the serious damage it can do. It seems to me that a judge who doesn't know how the law works can do even MORE severe damage.
  - db48x 1y ago
    That’s a fair opinion, but 28 out of 50 states voted otherwise. If you want to change that then talk to your state’s congresscritters. Just remember that there are plenty of terrible lawyers out there who did pass the bar, and plenty of terrible judges who were once terrible lawyers. A degree is ultimately just a piece of paper (or parchment, if they went to a fancy school). It’s not a guarantee that they’ll be any good at their job.
    - ziddoap 1y ago
      >A degree is ultimately just a piece of paper Would you be comfortable visiting a doctor who didn't have their "piece of paper"? Obviously a degree is not a guarantee of skill or knowledge. No one is saying it is. However, a degree is a very strong indicator that the person is above some minimum level of knowledge. The counterpoint of "there are shitty lawyers with degrees" is ridiculous. Remove the requirements and those same people would still be shitty lawyers -- you've just lowered the floor so that even more shitty lawyers can practice.
      - db48x 1y ago
        Yes. The primary purpose of occupational licensing is to reduce the number of people who can participate in the occupation. Test doctors and judges and hair stylists alike based on whether they can do the job, not whether they have a piece of paper. Thousands of judges in 28 states are doing the job just fine even though they haven’t got that piece of paper. Requiring them to get one isn’t going to fix any problems.
booleandilemma 1y ago
That's interesting. I had thought programmer was the only serious profession where people didn't need a degree or any kind of certification.
NoahZuniga 1y ago
Arguably, its not the judges responsibility to know the law, but that of the lawyers. Both sides should find the relevant laws and case law, and the judge then decides what applies.

ranger_danger 1y ago

Some lower level judges in Texas are not required to have a law degree. https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1454620/judge-qualifications-and-selection-chart_07262022.pdf https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1454620/judge-qualifications-...

FilosofumRex 1y ago

The jurors are the fact finders (if it's a jury trial). They don't need to know the law, it will be explained to them by the judge. In a bench trial, the judge is both the fact finder and the law interpreter. The argument in favor of non-lawyer judges is that for misdemeanor cases the facts dominate the law, ie whom do you believe, not what's larceny or drug dealing.

db48x 1y ago

Remember that a degree is only a credential, and people without the credential can still be good at their job. What you need to be a judge is knowledge, not a credential.

Vilian 1y ago
It's because this type that anti-intelectualism that make USA justice system seems like a circus, and the best clown, the one that convince the public win
ddtaylor 1y ago
The Bar exam is supposed to be a legal litmus test of some kind
- db48x 1y ago
  A lot of court functions don’t involve lawyers at all. Small Claims courts, traffic courts, etc, etc. States that allow judges without a law degree are using them in these courts.
  - ddtaylor 1y ago
    Small claims courts, traffic courts and every other area of the legal apparatus should not be wield by potentially incompetent people. We already have enough problems with these swords when being held by competent people.
mcherm 1y ago
> people without the credential can still be good at their job Yes, and some can be very bad at their job. The goal of requiring one to pass a bar exam in order to practice law is to minimize the number of practicioners who are horribly incompetent, because of the serious damage it can do. It seems to me that a judge who doesn't know how the law works can do even MORE severe damage.
- db48x 1y ago
  That’s a fair opinion, but 28 out of 50 states voted otherwise. If you want to change that then talk to your state’s congresscritters. Just remember that there are plenty of terrible lawyers out there who did pass the bar, and plenty of terrible judges who were once terrible lawyers. A degree is ultimately just a piece of paper (or parchment, if they went to a fancy school). It’s not a guarantee that they’ll be any good at their job.
  - ziddoap 1y ago
    >A degree is ultimately just a piece of paper Would you be comfortable visiting a doctor who didn't have their "piece of paper"? Obviously a degree is not a guarantee of skill or knowledge. No one is saying it is. However, a degree is a very strong indicator that the person is above some minimum level of knowledge. The counterpoint of "there are shitty lawyers with degrees" is ridiculous. Remove the requirements and those same people would still be shitty lawyers -- you've just lowered the floor so that even more shitty lawyers can practice.
    - db48x 1y ago
      Yes. The primary purpose of occupational licensing is to reduce the number of people who can participate in the occupation. Test doctors and judges and hair stylists alike based on whether they can do the job, not whether they have a piece of paper. Thousands of judges in 28 states are doing the job just fine even though they haven’t got that piece of paper. Requiring them to get one isn’t going to fix any problems.

booleandilemma 1y ago

That's interesting. I had thought programmer was the only serious profession where people didn't need a degree or any kind of certification.

NoahZuniga 1y ago

Arguably, its not the judges responsibility to know the law, but that of the lawyers. Both sides should find the relevant laws and case law, and the judge then decides what applies.